I can tell you it's not. The 1A PALs all game specific. and there are more than one version just for Mercs depending on which B-Board it shipped on
Mercs (US version) lines / jailbars on background and sprite layers
- Thread starter jowstni
- Start date
Just found that out myself lol. Yeah, both games just produced garbled graphics.
Checking the mame source code I see "bboardplds" data, and "o224b.1a" for the 2 versions of US Mercs. Would I just find replacements chips (ebay?), and then burn the data from both versions to the chips? And then see which one works?
https://github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/master/src/mame/capcom/cps1.cpp
Checking the mame source code I see "bboardplds" data, and "o224b.1a" for the 2 versions of US Mercs. Would I just find replacements chips (ebay?), and then burn the data from both versions to the chips? And then see which one works?
https://github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/master/src/mame/capcom/cps1.cpp
Step 1 is to look at your PCB and report back what the number is that is printed on it.
Important is the 1st line. It's a PAL 16V8H. Most programmers can do those. Just choose the right file from MAME romset and burn it into a GAL16V8 which is compatible. Plug it in the place of the PAL 16V8 and see how it goes. You also got a lot of PALs here:
https://wiki.pldarchive.co.uk/index.php?title=Arcade
https://wiki.pldarchive.co.uk/index.php?title=Arcade
That is "O224B"
That "O2" as in the letter O for "Ookami 2", the game's Japanese name, followed by 24, for the B-Board Variant and then "B" meaning it's a B-Board PAL.
That is the one that's dumped on the PLD archive: https://wiki.pldarchive.co.uk/index.php?title=Mercs
as DS said get yourself a GAL16V8 replacement and program the code. I recommend using the ones from the PLD archive as the MAME dumps for PALs aren't always going to work on GAL devices and aren't always verified (since they aren't used by MAME source code to run the game)
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Got a programmer and some GAL16V8B roms. Flashed the data file (for location 1A) from the PLD archive linked above, replaced the rom at 1A, and...
The exact same lines still appear.
But the new rom and data seemed to work, at least.
I saw there's the same type of rom at location 11E, so I just replaced that too (flashed using the GAL data file from the PLD archive). Still the same lines. I'll keep checking into what else the problem could be. I'm just hoping its not the C-Board.
The exact same lines still appear.
But the new rom and data seemed to work, at least.
I saw there's the same type of rom at location 11E, so I just replaced that too (flashed using the GAL data file from the PLD archive). Still the same lines. I'll keep checking into what else the problem could be. I'm just hoping its not the C-Board.
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I don't think it will help, it's not graphics related.
honestly your next step is probably checking out the c-Board.
before you go soldering stuff confirm it's the c-board. either send your C-Board to someone who has a working MERCs board, or have someone with a working mercs board send you their c-board.
alternatively if you or someone else has a battery backed C-Board it can be reprogrammed for MERCs and tested on your board.
the last thing you want to do is mess up a reflow on your C-Board if that isn't even the problem
alternatively if you or someone else has a battery backed C-Board it can be reprogrammed for MERCs and tested on your board.
the last thing you want to do is mess up a reflow on your C-Board if that isn't even the problem
DelsArcade
Enthusiast
If you hit a brick wall, I do have a working Mercs PCB in my possession.
Del
Del
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Thanks for the extra tips, @twistedsymphony and I super appreciate your offer to help out @DelsArcade
I know CPS stuff is rare as heck so I will proceed very carefully lol
I know CPS stuff is rare as heck so I will proceed very carefully lol
it's really not. I'd even argue it's one of the more common arcade hardware.
Big_P Big_p
Professional
Every corner store almost had a SF2 world warrior, Champion Edition or Turbo out my way. I would have thought it was the most produced arcade hardware ever, but I could be wrong.
Still a nice piece of kit and well worth looking after though
it's entirely possible.
If I recall SFII was the 3rd best selling arcade game of all time. Pacman sold around 400K cabinets and space invaders around 360K cabinets
SFII was a distant 3rd at 200,000 (between all versions) But given how many other great selling games came out on the hardware the total number of units sold across all CPS1 might have pushed it to #1
Based on what I see on the market though I'd guess that MVS is the most common arcade hardware, potentially with CPS1 at #2. I've seen it quoted that 1.18Million MVS units were made... and I believe it.
Big_P Big_p
Professional
Great info. Pacman and Space Invaders were before my time.
MVS boards are definitely the most common on the market now and 1.18M sounds more than realistic. The cart system was a great selling point and really set the standard for easily swapped games. In the arcade i used to work in as a teen, we would have had 10 or more MVS boards and very rarely was one out of a cabinet. Compared to maybe 6 CPS1s on the floor and numerous in storage or later in the systems life swapped for newer games with the local distributor.
On topic however, I wouldn't rule out it being a PSU issue just yet. Jailbars like that can show when the amp draw is too close to the PSU max. I note that you have adjusted the voltage but this will not necessarily fix an amp issue. I had a similar problem with a CPS2 recently and adjusted the voltage up incrementally to about 5.1v with no success only to find later that it was infact a PSU issue and I was drawing just over the PSUs max amperage. A bigger PSU fixed the problem. I wouldn't rule out a board issue but it's definitely worth looking at the PSU before you start pulling other stuff as it's an easy test.
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Thanks, Big_P. I might as well check into it again. I will say, though, that I've use the Mercs board on 3 different PSUs (Astro city original, some junky cheap thing in the Mercs cab, and a new meanwell). It has the same bars. I also have a Ghouls n Ghosts conversion which works perfectly on the Astro and Meanwell.
I think you're onto something, though, because I recently very slightly turned the voltage pot on Mercs (is it voltage? or is it volume? lol), and some of the colors of the messed up graphics changed. Like first they were white/gray thicker bars, and then they changed to brown/red colored bars when I turned the potentiometer. I turned it back to its original position and now it's back to its original white-colored bars.
Just had a big realization. The Ghouls n Ghosts conversion board I have appears to be using a B-21 chip c-board with the battery removed. Does anyone know if I could reprogram the C632 or IOC1 chip so that it's compatible with Mercs?
edit: I programmed a new GAL using the file for C628 on the PLD Archive for Mercs and replaced the C632 chip on the c-board pictured below. Doesn't work. It was interesting, though, that I could see the silhouettes of sprites with bits of incorrect colors, but they did not appear to have any lines or strange artifacts. It makes me think even more that the original Mercs c-board is the issue.
I'll still be checking into how I might use the B-21 c-board for Mercs. If anyone has tips on how I could use it, I'd greatly appreciate it.
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edit: I programmed a new GAL using the file for C628 on the PLD Archive for Mercs and replaced the C632 chip on the c-board pictured below. Doesn't work. It was interesting, though, that I could see the silhouettes of sprites with bits of incorrect colors, but they did not appear to have any lines or strange artifacts. It makes me think even more that the original Mercs c-board is the issue.
I'll still be checking into how I might use the B-21 c-board for Mercs. If anyone has tips on how I could use it, I'd greatly appreciate it.
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I just reread the bolded. Thanks for the tip. Would you or anyone else recommend restoring the battery on this B-21 c board?
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