New Member, Advice Needed

[slevin]

Hi guys, I've kind of been a lurker in the last couple months because I've had a sudden interests in Japanese Candy Cabs.

I'm a complete newb and still have a hard time understanding everything about these machines, but before I make another thread I was curious if someone could maybe give me some advise on what my first cabinet should be.

A few things about me so you guys can help make recommendations. I am handy with tools and electronics, while not a professional I've had experience with various projects. I'm not afraid of digging into something and trying to figure out whats wrong with it.

My situation is as follows, I have a small hobby shop that operates in the evenings. The shop has turned into more of a hangout for customers now, we specialize in Tamiya Mini 4WD. It's a type of Japanese slot car racing that was popular in the 90's and has had a major comeback since 2012. Anyways, my building is a unique bow truss structure with brick walls. I'd like to add a few japanese candy cabs to it for visuals and also for customers to play. I'd like to have working coin mechanisms to charge customers as well, the cabinets are not meant to be freeplay.

I'm not a huge fan of the 10,000 games in one style units, I'd like to stick to a few cabinets with limited games but maybe change them in the future. If i were to build my own personal machine I wouldn't mind a multi-game setup but for the sake of the shop I'd like to keep it more on the simple side. This being said, I started first looking at Vewlix units because I liked how much newer they were, but once I saw the Sega Blast Citys I fell in love. I strayed away from the blast citys due to them being older with a tube style monitor etc. Yesterday I went to KC's warehouse just to see the cabinets first hand and also pick KC's brain a little bit. He seemed more confident in me getting a Blast City due to the fact that I preferred to run a jamma board game on them and they being ready for jamma already. If I were to get a blast city, I'm thinking a couple fighting games and maybe metal gear/puzzle bobble type game on it. (girlfriends tend to get board waiting for their bf's at my shop).

KC mentioned that the tube in the blast citys should last 30 years and most have at least 10 years left in them if you get a better one. He kept telling me that the newer Vewlix units are harder to get original games for, or they're expensive. He also mentioned that the games nowadays for the vewlix units are commission based? (not sure if I understood it correctly) but basically games are free or something from manufacture but when the shop charges 100 yen, game manufacture gets a percent or something? A friend of mine is an avid Street Fighter fan and recommended me to get a pair of SF4 units. Which I might consider in the future as well. As far as the Blast City, I'd like a 2P version for the time being as to not take up too much space for my trial run of arcades at my shop.

Sorry for the longwinded post, any advice is appreciated ! I'm located in Socal, local to KC. Maybe someone has a cabinet setup already that would like to sell?

Scott

 

[theoddtech]

Welcome aboard! I miss slot car racing, would love to come by sometime! Depending on what games you want to run, an Astro City might be a better fit for you - Blast is tri-sync, but the monitor is more finicky. If you only want to play 15khz games (jamma, not jvs), Astro has a solid monitor that will require less work. that said if you wanna run SF4 you'll want Vewlixes, so it's really up to you! being close to KC means you can go inspect and grab stuff as it comes in which is convenient.

 

[jassin000]

Astro has a solid monitor that will require less work. that said if you wanna run SF4 you'll want Vewlixes

This says it all!
ANY CRT based cab you buy will require work, some more than others but yes ALL will require it.
Esp if you want to have the cab for any serious amount of time (not just sell it at the first sign of trouble).

Read about whats involved in CRT repair, and don't pull the trigger unless you can handle it.
If you are not up to the challenge (don't worry most aren't) I say get a Vewlix.
Don't drink the CRT Koolaid... JAMMA/15khz games run fine in these cabs, it requires additional investment in equipment but today its 100% plug'n play.

 

[slevin]

Welcome aboard! I miss slot car racing, would love to come by sometime! Depending on what games you want to run, an Astro City might be a better fit for you - Blast is tri-sync, but the monitor is more finicky. If you only want to play 15khz games (jamma, not jvs), Astro has a solid monitor that will require less work. that said if you wanna run SF4 you'll want Vewlixes, so it's really up to you! being close to KC means you can go inspect and grab stuff as it comes in which is convenient.

Thanks for the quick reply, let me read into the Astro City too. I'm going to have to read up about jamma vs jvs and 15khz games, verbage went straight over my head... haha.

 

[slevin]

Astro has a solid monitor that will require less work. that said if you wanna run SF4 you'll want Vewlixes

This says it all!ANY CRT based cab you buy will require work, some more than others but yes ALL will require it.
Esp if you want to have the cab for any serious amount of time (not just sell it at the first sign of trouble).

Read about whats involved in CRT repair, and don't pull the trigger unless you can handle it.
If you are not up to the challenge (don't worry most aren't) I say get a Vewlix.
Don't drink the CRT Koolaid... JAMMA/15khz games run fine in these cabs, it requires additional investment in equipment but today its 100% plug'n play.

I think it was your recent post about what was invovled in CRT monitor repairs that steered me away from the old units, but after rubbing up against them at KC's I really like the vintage feel of them....

KC was saying something about fighting games input time and visual reproduction not being fast enough or something, I think it was for fighting games ? I got lost when he was trying to explain it to me.

 

[jassin000]

KC was saying something about fighting games input time and visual reproduction not being fast enough or something, I think it was for fighting games ?

Hehe he was trying to talk about lag in a really unusual/funny way...
Yes LCD monitors have lag, yes that is in addition to whatever other lag is present in your device chain (if you use an OSSC this is 1ms+).

I suggest you try it (OSSC+gaming LCD) for yourself, again with the not drinking the CRT Koolaid.

 

[slevin]

KC was saying something about fighting games input time and visual reproduction not being fast enough or something, I think it was for fighting games ?

Hehe he was trying to talk about lag in a really unusual/funny way...Yes LCD monitors have lag, yes that is in addition to whatever other lag is present in your device chain (if you use an OSSC this is 1ms+).

I suggest you try it (OSSC+gaming LCD) for yourself, again with the not drinking the CRT Koolaid.

Honestly on paper and everything you're saying about the CRT cabinets makes total sense, for me being a practical guy I should probably just buy a Vewlix C from KC. He said they're built better then some of the newer Vewlix units as well. So there is a work around for playing the older games on the newer LCD monitors without the lag KC was talking about?

 

[slevin]

someone local is selling this unit on craigslist too..worth it?

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/vgm/d/irvine-arcade-cabinet-vewlix-diamond/7145932819.html

I'd like my first cabinet have 2 player capacity though, seems hard to find vewlix's like that.

 

[jassin000]

So there is a work around for playing the older games on the newer LCD monitors without the lag KC was talking about?

No.
By using an OSSC and a very expensive gaming monitor you can reduce it, but "without the lag" period isn't possible on LCD due to the way the tech functions (you'll always have some lag).

Sounds like you won't ever be happy with LCD just by the things you are saying...

after rubbing up against them at KC's I really like the vintage feel of them

Just keep in mind that owning one is a totally different ball game of repair and service.
If you want to keep it going YOU are going to have to learn how to do this work.

In today's world even if you have the money, hiring a service guy coming out to the house is NOT an option.

 

[rewrite]

someone local is selling this unit on craigslist too..worth it?

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/vgm/d/irvine-arcade-cabinet-vewlix-diamond/7145932819.html

I'd like my first cabinet have 2 player capacity though, seems hard to find vewlix's like that.

Not remotely. KC sells that same cab for 2k or 2500 I don't remember which.

You can buy control panels separately for around 150, don't let that be a contributing factor too much.

 

[jassin000]

seems hard to find vewlix's like that

You will NOT find a 2player Vewlix, they never came from the factory that way.
ALL p2 panels you see were put on the cabs after the fact (I did all three of mine/none came that way).

That Diamond is a rip off man, 4k Jesus fuck!
Buy it from KC for around 2k (I think he was down to 22~2400$ at one point).

 

[slevin]

someone local is selling this unit on craigslist too..worth it?

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/vgm/d/irvine-arcade-cabinet-vewlix-diamond/7145932819.html

I'd like my first cabinet have 2 player capacity though, seems hard to find vewlix's like that.

Not remotely. KC sells that same cab for 2k or 2500 I don't remember which.
You can buy control panels separately for around 150, don't let that be a contributing factor too much.

Thank you for chiming in on that, I'm still trying to figure out what prices are reasonable.

Also thanks for the comment on the control panels, that helps a lot too.

 

[slevin]

Damn, thank you guys so much. Seriously it's a breath of fresh air to have an online forum contribute and not jump down my throat about being a newb or not using the search function.

 

[theoddtech]

This is a good group, even if there is an old thread for your question most people will just link you to the old thread instead of berating you. Drama is for other forums

 

[Bluetear]

If you do end up grabbing a Vewlix--which (for whatever little it may be worth) would probably be my suggestion after reading through the thread--definitely take a look at the awesome 2-player Vewlix control panel reproductions produced by @Rbtamanini here: https://www.arcade-projects.com/for...snk-and-taito-panels-05-29-2020-update.12276/

His work is top notch and you won't be disappointed.

And if you still want to grab a CRT cab after setting up the Vewlix, you'll have gained a good amount of knowledge about some the key basics (wiring, PSUs, etc.) by working on the Vewlix. You can then decide whether you also want to tackle CRT maintenance and repair.

If you do decide to jump right into a CRT cab, I second the suggestion to look for an Astro rather than a Blast. That's purely based on my own experience and I know others here may disagree. The good news is it's hard to go wrong unless you're easily frustrated and/or not interested in learning the details.

No matter what you decide, welcome to a great place to hangout.

 

[ekorz]

I have two blasts, an egret2, and a vewlix. The egret2 gives me a point of comparison to the blast -- it is indeed easier to work on. (Good luck finding one though!) Just wanted to say though... the blast isn't rocket science either. Someone is going to enjoy those CRTs for the next 10 years, so maybe it's you! No matter the path, this hobby to me feels a lot like buying old cars. You can buy an old one that's been refurbished but SOMETHING is gonna break at some point, or you're gonna want to change something, and you'll either be helpless or you'll have taught yourself how to deal with it.

Modifying a vewlix to play Jamma requires a bunch of add-ons... I don't think it's much easier to navigate that, especially starting from scratch. Your major options, I think, are:

1) Finding an official Taito Jamma Kit - +$850 when you find one, they're not for sale often
2) Buy one that has a jamma kit installed in it already -- they're rare and KC is not particularly motivated to dig through his whole stock
3) DIY, which is quite a lot of parts from various sources and they aren't always available... Jammafier, Jassifier to tame the rgb levels, OSSC, and some jamma extension cables. Probably close to +$400 right there, after all the cost + shipping.

Not all pcb's sync at the same refresh rate, and LCD's generally expect 60hz. So for all options, you would increase your pcb compatibility by swapping the monitor out with a freesync model (+$400) and a new bracket (+$200) and possibly upgrading to the OSSC pro when it comes out.

For all paths, you need a step-down converter so the wei-ya power supply doesn't fry your pcbs. Or you can swap the psu entirely.

So, yeah, not straightforward. It's easy for @jassin000 because he has been doing this for a while, but that's a lot of stuff to manage from square-one. But we're here for you.

No matter the cab, if it comes from KC you'll also want to tear it down and clean it, then put it back together. I happen to think you'll get to know the cab pretty well during this process... make sure you know what is connecting to what, and why. By the time you've put it back together, it's not that complicated anymore.

 

[jassin000]

Finding an official Taito Jamma Kit - +$850 when you find one, they're not for sale often

850$ damn, you know I'm tempted to sell mine for that.
The quality is actually better/support higher with Jammafier+Jassifier+OSSC+LG 32GK650F-B and the price is about 200$ cheaper (assuming you already have the required JVS IO and PSU).

 

[slevin]

Can you no longer contact Taito directly for the Jamma conversion kit?

 

[jassin000]

Can you no longer contact Taito directly for the Jamma conversion kit?

It went out of production in 2015 (sold out sometime in 2016)...
You can no longer buy it, hence why people who still have one charge 850$ for it (it was only 400$~450$ from Taito originally).

Its the little box on top of this stack...

One thing you and everyone should be aware of about the official Jamma kit, it won't work with a ton of boards.
Only the most mainstream stuff seems to work.

CPS1
CPS2
CPS3
MVS
F3
Namco System 11/12

Odd ducks won't...

Midway Y/T/Wolf Unit (MK1/2/3)
Capcom Mitchel (Buster Bros/Super Buster Bros)
Bubble Bobble (Taito classic stuff)
Captain America (and I suspect other Data East boards but I haven't personally tested them)
R-Type 1/2 (Only M92 Irem seems to work and its really dark, needs brightness adjusted big time)
Aliens (needs a sync pulse generator or it won't lock)

 

[rewrite]

The quality is actually better/support higher with Jammafier+Jassifier+OSSC+LG 32GK650F-B and the price is about 200$ cheaper (assuming you already have the required JVS IO and PSU).

Isn't the bracket missing from this equation and puts them closer to equal?