Programming Question: CPS1 SF2 World Warrior: PALCE16V8H-15PC/4

[freddiefiasco]

I need to flash a PALCE16V8H-15PC/4 PLD and I don't have a compatible programmer. What programmer do you all use to flash this PLD?

 

[xodaraP]

I burnt one of these on a Xeltek Superpro 280u, but any burner capable of burning a gal16v8 will do it fine.

Wellon VP390 is a good choice and I think the TOP3000 can do them, not sure about the GQ-4X which is also a popular programmer

Where are you located? If you're in Australia I can burn you one and post it to you if it helps, otherwise someone closer to you might be able to help

 

[freddiefiasco]

I burnt one of these on a Xeltek Superpro 280u, but any burner capable of burning a gal16v8 will do it fine.

Wellon VP390 is a good choice and I think the TOP3000 can do them, not sure about the GQ-4X which is also a popular programmer

Where are you located? If you're in Australia I can burn you one and post it to you if it helps, otherwise someone closer to you might be able to help

Thanks for the offer, much appreciated.

I'm actually using the Superpro 501S and I did see the GAL16V8 but wasn't sure if this was equivalent. However, it looks like I need an adapter according to the editor.
I also have the GQ-4X so I will try flashing on this programmer.

I am using the ROM files for 910522 but I can't identify which file this should be. The EPROMs are obvious but which one is the GAL16V8 binary?



Thank you.

 

[ekorz]

I don't think mame has pals. Could be wrong but this should work in any case: http://www.jammarcade.net/files/pals/CPS1-STF29.jed

Sf2 ww for ic location/id STF29

 

[freddiefiasco]

I just fired up the GQ-4X and searched for the GAL chip. Turns out it's not even part of their existing list of programmable chips.

I haven't used GQ-4X in over 2 years so I never really paid attention to the request feature.

I did get a message to download an update to their UI from 6.30 -> 6.38 but the revision history for the original GQ-4X programmer doesn't mention anything about this so it may have been in the 6.30 version and I never really paid any attention to it.


Regardless, I submitted a request for compatibility for the PALCE16V8H-15PC/4 chip and I was surprised to see the submission go through:


When this was my go to programmer at one point I had many gripes about it. Most of the issues were related to writing EPROMs and other types that required a higher voltage than reading chips. MCUMall looks like they have a GQ-5X model. This means they've moved on to improved programmers. I'm not even sure MCUMall is the official site for the GQ-4X but they definitely seem to actively support these devices.

For a low-end programmer (chinese clones aside) the GQ programmers are pretty good readers. I will probably do some more testing with the one I have in case I have to retract anything negative I have to say about its Writing capabilities.

I think the device/chip support request feature is giving me hope that this is still a good hobby programmer to keep readily available.

 

[freddiefiasco]

I don't think mame has pals. Could be wrong but this should work in any case: http://www.jammarcade.net/files/pals/CPS1-STF29.jed

Sf2 ww for ic location/id STF29

You're right. I wonder why that is.

Thanks mucho!

It looks like the file is forbidden to download? Nevermind, you can't directly download it from your link. You have to go through the Web Page->PLD Files to get to the download.

 

[ekorz]

I think they just use code to handle whatever the PALs do. Logic, not memory maybe? Anyway that PAL worked ok?

 

[freddiefiasco]

I think they just use code to handle whatever the PALs do. Logic, not memory maybe? Anyway that PAL worked ok?

That makes sense.

I'm halfway there. I was able to download the file, but now I need to program it. I have one more programmer I hope works so I am giving that one a shot.

Thanks!

 

[ekorz]

Well if you're in the US I can burn one

 

[xodaraP]

You are correct, MAME does sometimes have PAL dumps but they don't for the CPS1. However I don't think that's the right file you linked, fairly sure the PAL on the C board is called a C632, it is also on the jammarcade website though

Is the PAL missing or faulty? If faulty how did you verify that?

If you get stuck, I have a fully working WW board here I can check anything on

 

[mountainmanjed]

Pals on cps1 and 2 just control where the graphic bank starts for each graphic layer so pay attention to which layer is wrong or missing.

 

[ekorz]

You are correct, MAME does sometimes have PAL dumps but they don't for the CPS1. However I don't think that's the right file you linked, fairly sure the PAL on the C board is called a C632, it is also on the jammarcade website though

Is the PAL missing or faulty? If faulty how did you verify that?

If you get stuck, I have a fully working WW board here I can check anything on

ah yeah, wasn't sure which it was since I'm not in front of my board - this is that one http://www.jammarcade.net/files/pals/CPS1-C632.jed

 

[freddiefiasco]

Well if you're in the US I can burn one

Thanks for the offer. I'll hit you up if I need one. I am mainly learning how to resurrect a dead one and I am in the process of troubleshooting the board and narrowed it down to a faulty GAL chip.

 

[freddiefiasco]

You are correct, MAME does sometimes have PAL dumps but they don't for the CPS1. However I don't think that's the right file you linked, fairly sure the PAL on the C board is called a C632, it is also on the jammarcade website though

Is the PAL missing or faulty? If faulty how did you verify that?

If you get stuck, I have a fully working WW board here I can check anything on

I think the PAL is faulty based on my troubleshooting process:

1. I booted up the game (SF2 WW) and it boots fine.
2. I have a second setup of the same game and I booted this one up and the screen is dark. There are some random flickering maybe every 3 seconds but it's very faint.
3. Since I have a working setup I tried to isolate the issue by narrowing down which board is faulty.
4. I Used the working A board and plugged in the faulty B+C boards.
5. I compared EPROM chips from the faulty set to the working set and SF2-18 + SF2-19 did not match so I removed the Working set from the working B board and popped them in to the faulty B board, same issue.
6. I removed the C board from the working set and plugged it in to the faulty B board and turned it on, display worked.
7. I placed the working set back together to make sure not to confuse myself and it still works.
8. I placed the faulty C board onto the A+B working boards and no display.
9. I took the GAL chip off the working C board and placed it on the faulty C board and powered it up and the display showed.
10. I put the working C board back with the A+B working boards with the original GAL and it works.
11. I placed the assumed faulty GAL chip on the working A+B+C boards and the display was not showing.

Based on the above steps I tried, I narrowed it down to the GAL chip being faulty.

Right now, I'm just stuck with reading the working GAL chip data and comparing this with the data off of the faulty GAL chip to make certain the faulty GAL chip is in fact faulty.

 

[freddiefiasco]

You are correct, MAME does sometimes have PAL dumps but they don't for the CPS1. However I don't think that's the right file you linked, fairly sure the PAL on the C board is called a C632, it is also on the jammarcade website though

Is the PAL missing or faulty? If faulty how did you verify that?

If you get stuck, I have a fully working WW board here I can check anything on

ah yeah, wasn't sure which it was since I'm not in front of my board - this is that one http://www.jammarcade.net/files/pals/CPS1-C632.jed

I downloaded this one too. It looks like MAME has the C632 file in the set.

 

[xodaraP]

You are correct, MAME does sometimes have PAL dumps but they don't for the CPS1. However I don't think that's the right file you linked, fairly sure the PAL on the C board is called a C632, it is also on the jammarcade website though

Is the PAL missing or faulty? If faulty how did you verify that?

If you get stuck, I have a fully working WW board here I can check anything on

I think the PAL is faulty based on my troubleshooting process:
1. I booted up the game (SF2 WW) and it boots fine.
2. I have a second setup of the same game and I booted this one up and the screen is dark. There are some random flickering maybe every 3 seconds but it's very faint.
3. Since I have a working setup I tried to isolate the issue by narrowing down which board is faulty.
4. I Used the working A board and plugged in the faulty B+C boards.
5. I compared EPROM chips from the faulty set to the working set and SF2-18 + SF2-19 did not match so I removed the Working set from the working B board and popped them in to the faulty B board, same issue.
6. I removed the C board from the working set and plugged it in to the faulty B board and turned it on, display worked.
7. I placed the working set back together to make sure not to confuse myself and it still works.
8. I placed the faulty C board onto the A+B working boards and no display.
9. I took the GAL chip off the working C board and placed it on the faulty C board and powered it up and the display showed.
10. I put the working C board back with the A+B working boards with the original GAL and it works.
11. I placed the assumed faulty GAL chip on the working A+B+C boards and the display was not showing.

Based on the above steps I tried, I narrowed it down to the GAL chip being faulty.

Right now, I'm just stuck with reading the working GAL chip data and comparing this with the data off of the faulty GAL chip to make certain the faulty GAL chip is in fact faulty.

Unfortunately the original PAL will be protected, also the data in the JED file will have been decrypted and converted for use on a gal16v8 so won't compare to the data on the original PAL.

It sounds like you've pretty well worked out the PAL is bad, so you need to burn and install a replacement. In saying this, I tried to burn the C632 to troubleshoot a board and it didn't work so hopefully you have more luck

 

[freddiefiasco]

Update:

I'm using a GALEP-III programmer to read both faulty and working PAL chips.

Reading faulty PAL: reports back "Incorrect GAL type" 9 out of 10 attempts to read the chip.


Reading working PAL: reports back "Read OK" 10 out of 10 times reading the chip.


I'm not familiar with PAL chips but the PAL that I was able to read does not seem to load the data into the buffer window.


Normally when I read a chip, the buffer window displays data contained on the chip unless Copy protection flag is enabled on most chips.

Is the C632 chip on the CPS1 SF2 WW C board protected? Ignore this, i posted this before your reply.

 

[freddiefiasco]

You are correct, MAME does sometimes have PAL dumps but they don't for the CPS1. However I don't think that's the right file you linked, fairly sure the PAL on the C board is called a C632, it is also on the jammarcade website though

Is the PAL missing or faulty? If faulty how did you verify that?

If you get stuck, I have a fully working WW board here I can check anything on

I think the PAL is faulty based on my troubleshooting process:1. I booted up the game (SF2 WW) and it boots fine.
2. I have a second setup of the same game and I booted this one up and the screen is dark. There are some random flickering maybe every 3 seconds but it's very faint.
3. Since I have a working setup I tried to isolate the issue by narrowing down which board is faulty.
4. I Used the working A board and plugged in the faulty B+C boards.
5. I compared EPROM chips from the faulty set to the working set and SF2-18 + SF2-19 did not match so I removed the Working set from the working B board and popped them in to the faulty B board, same issue.
6. I removed the C board from the working set and plugged it in to the faulty B board and turned it on, display worked.
7. I placed the working set back together to make sure not to confuse myself and it still works.
8. I placed the faulty C board onto the A+B working boards and no display.
9. I took the GAL chip off the working C board and placed it on the faulty C board and powered it up and the display showed.
10. I put the working C board back with the A+B working boards with the original GAL and it works.
11. I placed the assumed faulty GAL chip on the working A+B+C boards and the display was not showing.

Based on the above steps I tried, I narrowed it down to the GAL chip being faulty.

Right now, I'm just stuck with reading the working GAL chip data and comparing this with the data off of the faulty GAL chip to make certain the faulty GAL chip is in fact faulty.

Unfortunately the original PAL will be protected, also the data in the JED file will have been decrypted and converted for use on a gal16v8 so won't compare to the data on the original PAL.

It sounds like you've pretty well worked out the PAL is bad, so you need to burn and install a replacement. In saying this, I tried to burn the C632 to troubleshoot a board and it didn't work so hopefully you have more luck

Ah ok, that makes more sense. I was wondering why the values didn't match up to my checks.

I initially got curious about what everyone is using to flash these chips but it turns out that the issue I'm having isn't as common as I thought.

I'll move the rest of my discovery to the Repair logs section once I do some additional research.

The difficult part of this is that I only have ONE working C board, ONE working A board and Three working B boards.

thanks for your input!

 

[RealMFnG]

@freddiefiasco, I got a Top3000 programmer. If that helps you out any, swing on through.

 

[freddiefiasco]

@freddiefiasco, I got a Top3000 programmer. If that helps you out any, swing on through.

Thanks! I'll let you know. I ordered some GAL16V8 chips from China. If they don't work out I'll let you know.

(Did you ever get that MT3 board resurrected?)