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Pulstar and Ironclad conversions help

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rcboosted

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Based on what I've learned from these 2 threads and Mike McBike's conversion posts, I think I'm ready to order EPROMs for my conversion. These are for personal use, and donors are loose carts with beat up shell and torn label. They're more for technical reasons than playing the games themselves. I wanted to check with someone who is willing, to see if I got the right EPROMs. @twistedsymphony maybe? :)
https://www.arcade-projects.com/thr...oft-neo-geo-roll-up-pack-rom-to-eproms.16097/
https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads/options-for-conversion-of-this-mvs-boot.6544/
http://www.wolfgangrobel.de/mvs/pulstar.htm

For Pulstar:

PROGBK1
M27C160-100F1 SP2
M27C800-100F1 P1
M27C160-100F1 x4 V1-V4

CHA256
M27C322-100F1 x6 C1-C6
M27C160-100F1 x2 C7,C8
M27C1000-12F1 x1 S1
M27C1001-10F1 x1 M1

some questions:
I substituted Mike's S1 from HN27C301G-17 with M27C1000-12F1 based on twistedsymphony's handy eprom cross reference table, I think this is ok?
I assumed M1 can be M27C1001-10F1 since Mike's pic had it covered by sticker, but other CHA256 boards all use this eprom for M1

For Ironclad, I'm going with PROGTOP instead, since I have it available and Mike is using PROGTOP as well:
http://www.wolfgangrobel.de/mvs/ironclad2.htm

PROGTOP
M27C160-100F1 x3 V1, V2, P1

CHA256B
M27C322-100F1 x4 C1-C4
M27C1000-12F1 x1 S1
M27C1001-10f1 x1 M1

question:
Are there differences between CHA256 and CHA256B in what EPROMs can be used for M1? Because I'm basing the M1 on CHA256 other boards use, but Mike's example uses CHA256B.
Is it ok to mix PROG and CHA boards from different donors? I'm thinking as long as the jumpers are set properly, it shouldn't matter?


Total order would be:
M27C160-100F1 x10
M27C800-100F1
M27C322-100F1 x10
M27C1000-12F1 x2
M27C1001-10F1 x2
 
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rcboosted said:
Are there differences between CHA256 and CHA256B in what EPROMs can be used for M1?
Click to expand...

I think you mean S1, you have it listed correct in your EPROM list but not in your "some questions". S1 is always a non-JEDEC 1Mbit ROM (27c301/27c1000) to my knowledge it's the same across all PCB versions.
M1 can be either JEDEC (27c010/27c1001) or non-JEDEC (27c301/27c1000), depending on jumper settings. though some newer games require 2Mbit or 4Mbit M-ROM

for naming it's best to assume ST or AMD brand chips, other brands tend to stray from the convention. Particularly Marconix. their "27c1000" is actually JEDEC pinout not non-JEDEC.

your pulstar and ironclad ROM and PCB selection looks great
 
Thank you so much for looking over my list and your knowledge share. If S1 and M1 are always the same, I might pick up a couple more to bring the shipping weight up to the next 50g limit for the same rate. For JEDEC and non-JEDEC, it seems like if I stick with ST and AMD, I just have to make sure it's the correct part number. Since buyicnow doesn't really tell me if they're JEDEC or not. Where I'll run into issue is when looking for substitutes(other PCB use etc) that are similar size and word size to keep in mind they're JEDEC or not.

due to buyicnow's low stock on 27c1000, I'm adding 2 eproms from Hitachi and Fujitsu for flexibility of future use with either S1 or M1 and an extra ST 27c1001 just to cover more cases:
HITACHI HN27C301G-17
FUJITSU MBM27C1000A-10Z
 
I'm sure that Hitachi is fine but the Fujitsu you may want to look up the data sheet and make sure the pinout matches JEDEC or non JEDEC
 
Based on this rom reference:
https://smitdogg.mameworld.info/du/romref.txt
it listed the Fujitsu 27C1000 as non-JEDEC. Although it doesn't specifically say 27C1000A, I haven't found the official datasheet for the Fujitsu, maybe I'll just order 2 Hitachi instead, it's $0.09 cheaper! lol

I was looking over the CHA256 jumper settings you posted:
https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads/options-for-conversion-of-this-mvs-boot.6544/post-197035
I see that you had:

If C1 and C2 are 27C322
J11 - jumped
R1 - open
...if smaller do the opposite
...if empty both can be open

Which is what I'm using for Pulstar and Ironclad. Both Mike and MVS-Scan's CHA256 show the J11 to be open. Should it be jumped?
 
CHA-256 and CHA-256B are two different boards and the jumper settings are not the same between them.

though looking at the Pictures J11 appears to be closed on both MVS scans and Mike's page.

are you sure you're not mixing up J1 and J11?
 
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The CHA256 scans with 27C322 on C1 and C2 had the J11 open. But I'll jump it, it's not difficult to remove it if it doesn't work. Thanks again twistedsymphony on your help with this and your other posts. I plan to document these 2 carts for future reference eventhough these are pretty common conversions.
 
The EPROMs arrived already! 11 days! That's a record. I think I will attempt Ironclad first with PROGTOP and CHA256 from KOF 94, as it has less EPROMs to burn. Some questions for @twistedsymphony

In the Pochi and Nyaa thread, you mentioned for V Rom, it needs "2x 27c160 for V1 (lower half) and V2 (upper half)" What does lower half and upper half refer to? My immediate understanding would just be that I split the rom file into part 1 and part 2. Then burn part 1 to V1 and part 2 to V2. But you mentioned specifically lower half and upper half, so is this reversed and part 1 goes to V2 and part 2 goes to V1? The MAME ROM only has 1 big 4MB V1 file.

For the C ROM, you mentioned this for P&N:

C1 will be split into 4ths and become C1 C3 C5 and C7
C2 will be split into 4ths and become C2 C4 C6 and C8

Will this interleaving be needed for Ironclad as well? I think this is only needed because P&N had to use a smaller EPROM size, and 2 EPROMs are read at the same time. The MAME ROM already has 4 different 4MB C ROM files, they fit the EPROM entirely, so probably not. Although, I'm wondering if this is needed for the V ROM, I doubt it, since it's only split into 2.

Finally, regarding burning split 512KB files using TL866 and adapter, is it just a straight first part goes to first chunk (no dip set, 000) 2nd part goes to 2nd chunk (001)? (Then 010, 011, 100, 101, 110, 111 etc.) Also, not sure if any byte swapping is needed either.
 
rcboosted said:
In the Pochi and Nyaa thread, you mentioned for V Rom, it needs "2x 27c160 for V1 (lower half) and V2 (upper half)" What does lower half and upper half refer to? My immediate understanding would just be that I split the rom file into part 1 and part 2. Then burn part 1 to V1 and part 2 to V2
Click to expand...
you're exactly right: "split the ROM file into part 1 and part 2. Then burn part 1 to V1 and part 2 to V2"

rcboosted said:
For the C ROM, you mentioned this for P&N:

C1 will be split into 4ths and become C1 C3 C5 and C7
C2 will be split into 4ths and become C2 C4 C6 and C8

Will this interleaving be needed for Ironclad as well?
Click to expand...
no. first of all, that's not interleaving, we're just splitting the ROMs there just like we did with the V-ROMs

Also that needed to be done in the P&N thread because P&N used 64Mbit ROMs and the target CHA board that person chose required 16Mbit C-ROMs, so they needed to be split into 4 parts each.

In your case Ironclad uses 32Mbit C-ROMs and the CHA256 PCB uses 32Mbit C-ROMs so you can burn them to 27c322 EPROMs as-is with not splitting required.
 
Thank for you confirming everything! So far splitting and burning aren't too bad, but I'll see if it works. Already fried 1 160 EPROM because I didn't set the programming voltage correctly. :)

I'm having trouble figuring out how to burn the DIP32 27c1000/27c301 EPROM. I had it set to 27C1001, do I need to swap Pin 2 and 24? I thought that was needed, but your compatibility chart didn't mention it.
 
rcboosted said:
Already fried 1 160 EPROM because I didn't set the programming voltage correctly. :)

I'm having trouble figuring out how to burn the DIP32 27c1000/27c301 EPROM. I had it set to 27C1001, do I need to swap Pin 2 and 24? I thought that was needed, but your compatibility chart didn't mention it.
Click to expand...
These are specific to the programmer your using.

I don't have any experience with the TL866 so I am not the best person to provide advice on that.
 
Holy crap it worked on first try! I ended up making an adapter for the 27c1000/27c301 by bending the leg of a socket and soldering jumper wires to it. With lots of burning via all the splits that I'm not even sure I did correctly, it booted right up! I think this speaks volumes on twistedsymphony's guidance and the community's knowledge sharing! All I did was supply the labor. Here are some pics.
 

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It's time for Pulstar! Unfortunately, my beginner's luck has run out. I'm getting sprite tiles that are all out of order. I checked and doubled checked the jumper settings, they look ok. One thing I didn't do was making sure all the roms were written correctly, I only checked a few as I went along. ROM CRC checks were ok in UNIBIOS though, does CRC check cover all of the roms? I'm guessing this is a C ROM issue since the sound works fine, the game plays fine etc. What should I check next, other than desoldering each rom to check they've been written correctly. I did have to take the 74LS74A from a different PROGBK1 cart since I didn't make sure to use one with a 74LS74A already on it.

The C4 ROM with "13V" written on it was programmed at 13V by accident on the first 512KB bank, it still works, binary checked out ok with the original, but it can't be erased anymore. I've already swapped it with another EPROM and it made no difference. I burned C1 to C1, C2 to C2 etc as the files were named from MAME. I did have to do a "striped" (I used to call it interleave) write for the V roms. Where V1.bin was split in 2 and written as V1, V3, and V2.bin was written as V2, V4. But the game's first level and attract mode had no sound issues.


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CRC check only covers the program ROMs AFAIK.

for tile issues the first thing to check should be the S-ROM

your jumpers all appear to be correct. the problem is going to be either S-ROM or C-ROM related.
 
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twistedsymphony said:
CRC check only covers the program ROMs AFAIK.

for tile issues the first thing to check should be the S-ROM

your jumpers all appear to be correct. the problem is going to be either S-ROM or C-ROM related.
Click to expand...
Thanks for checking in! I burned another S1 rom and double checked to make sure it was written correctly before soldering it on. Same issues. I guess next step would be to check each C-rom then? Lots of desoldering lol.

The original S1 rom checked out ok too.

wow not sure what happened, but at least c1, c2, and c3 were all bad writes. c4 is the only good one so far
 
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I've learned to verify MVS ROMs twice I write all the ROMs, and verify after writing, then I verify again before soldering them... unlike other conversions where I can just pop it out of a socket I'd rather not de-solder and re-solder to re-verify.
 
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