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Sad story, OK ending

SegaFan said:
I understand all of what you are saying, but again, I’ll say that excluding this unique situation that THREE people are involved in, when has there been any other time where anyone has had an issue with Horacio? To be clear, I 100% don’t have a dog in the fight I’m simply saying that in my short time getting to know all the great people here prior to this I’ve never heard anything but positive comments and compliments about the guy. That’s all I’m saying. Hoping it all works out and that in the end everyone can be happy and satisfied. Thanks again everyone.
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It sounds like you DO have a dog in the fight because you are telling everyone to overlook this because it's only one incident.

That's like saying a guy has gone out with lots of girls but only sexually assaulted one of them.

Based on statistics, it's probably safe to date him, but I wouldn't want him to date my sister (if I had a sister).

To be clear, I'm not equating a dispute over an arcade cabinet with sexual assault. I'm demonstrating that when someone that is mostly good does something bad, you don't overlook the bad. You can take all the good into consideration, but there's no obligation.

I'm not going to repeat myself, other than to say that the opinions being formed are reasonable and expected.
 
SegaFan said:
when has there been any other time where anyone has had an issue with Horacio?
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I mean he's known for taking 2-4x as long as he'll tell you for any given project so it's not like he's always been some faultless guy out here. I don't mean to be rude, but you haven't been around long enough. This community LOVES to chatter behind peoples' backs when they get screwed over, but they have a massive fear of offending people they may need to buy something off of in the future.

Literal years of repeating that he's going to scan his NOS SF Q25 CPO (after HE offered to do it for some folks) and never following through.

6 week projects (paid up front of course) that turn into 10 months (and then don't even turn out to be done but at least delivered).

Lots of folks upset about those Sigma Tables. Paid and can't get them. The few that got them received cabs only part done.

There was a poorly spray-painted and covered in drip mark and dented Aero a few years back trying to be passed off as restored.

Stealing someone's money, you're right, that's new now, but please don't pretend there haven't been a bunch of people with issues with him over the years.
 
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I am 100% willing to do right by Bob. I am 100% willing to share any & all screen shots requested of me. Bob wants Omar to do the right thing.

I do read all of your insulting posts & personal attacks on here, Facebook and discord.

I don’t do restorations for people, I do it out of love for this hobby. I’m also not a “flipper”. I often need to sell things to free up money to buy new things. I am not independently wealthy.

With that said, there are lots of really cool people in this hobby. Love you guys. You know who you are.

Anyone who praises Omar suffers from Stockholm syndrome.
 
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rewrite said:
I mean he's known for taking 2-4x as long as he'll tell you for any given project so it's not like he's always been some faultless guy out here. I don't mean to be rude, but you haven't been around long enough. This community LOVES to chatter behind peoples' backs when they get screwed over, but they have a massive fear of offending people they may need to buy something off of in the future.

Literal years of repeating that he's going to scan his NOS SF Q25 CPO (after HE offered to do it for some folks) and never following through.

6 week projects (paid up front of course) that turn into 10 months (and then don't even turn out to be done but at least delivered).

Lots of folks upset about those Sigma Tables. Paid and can't get them. The few that got them received cabs only part done.

There was a poorly spray-painted and covered in drip mark and dented Aero a few years back trying to be passed off as restored.

Stealing someone's money, you're right, that's new now, but please don't pretend there haven't been a bunch of people with issues with him over the years.
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I haven’t been around very long that is true. I should have clarified that from what I’ve seen and read. Again hope all situations get resolved and that I continue to get to know you all. That’s really what it’s about for me, is all the cool people.
 
SegaFan said:
I haven’t been around very long that is true. I should have clarified that from what I’ve seen and read. Again hope all situations get resolved and that I continue to get to know you all. That’s really what it’s about for me, is all the cool people.
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I think what I mostly meant to convey is that you wouldn't have seen/read much complaining. This community for the most part doesn't like to air their dirty laundry openly. It's largely behind closed doors that people share their stories and make their issues known. That's why *usually* when someone speaks up it's suddenly an avalanche of people going "oh yeah me too". See the Yaton thread, or the Overcome Arcade mess for examples of that. Finding out people waited well over a year for things in (public) silence and still were never made whole.
 
rewrite said:
This community for the most part doesn't like to air their dirty laundry openly. It's largely behind closed doors that people share their stories and make their issues known.
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Oh we gossip like bored old folk peering out of windows all day and nothing better to do. 😂 I've got stories for days.

tonyt76 said:
Anyone who praises Omar suffers from Stockholm syndrome.
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Tony, this entire mess is at the very least half your fault. You backed out of a deal and used a freaking charge back before drawing your own friend into the mix. Whatever has gone down with the numbers since—and I won't pretend to understand it—all happened because of those actions which you started.

Just chill.

You copped to screwing up, and good for you. But leave it at that and don't throw stones, because you're honestly in no position to be throwing them. We both know this is far from the only time when your impatience has suddenly blown up a deal.

I really think everyone should just try and relax and use this as a learning lesson. This hobby can be unkind to long term arrangements. I've bought from Horacio before. I'd buy from him again. Cash, for cabs that are available now, because that's the way I do business. Less hurt feelings and bad expectations that way.

As we say in the pinball selling business "cash on the glass". 😆
 
I really don't understand how long it takes to make a reimbursement or what are we waiting for. This all it taking too much time and attention and this is not the way that I would like to make business. Everybody is reading this and they will draw their own conclussions.
 
Aurich said:
Oh we gossip like bored old folk peering out of windows all day and nothing better to do. 😂I've got stories for days.
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Oh we're almost as good as my retiree tenants in my apartment complex... 😂

Aurich said:
for cabs that are available now
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It seems like this is a recurring issue in the hobby the past few years. If the cab isn't already restored, you don't have a restored cab to sell. Either do the work and then sell it, or sell it as it sits. Don't ask that buyers pay for an item that doesn't even exist yet.
 
Darksoft said:
I really don't understand how long it takes to make a reimbursement or what are we waiting for. This all it taking too much time and attention and this is not the way that I would like to make business. Everybody is reading this and they will draw their own conclussions.
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  1. Tony is a bit neurotic.
  2. Omar / Arcade Game has the cabinet, has the money, and has a bug up his ass because Tony messed with him. He's keeping the money, and lying about not being able to understand the transaction history. He seems to think that people will believe him and somehow it makes Tony look bad, which is false.
  3. Bob has enough money that the $1800 doesn't matter much to him and he figures he'll be made whole eventually, and doesn't want his friends arguing.

I will never buy anything from Omar/Arcade Game. That's the conclusion I drew while procrastinating cleaning up my office. I want my 15 minutes back.
 
Rix said:
  1. Tony is a bit neurotic.
  2. Omar / Arcade Game has the cabinet, has the money, and has a bug up his ass because Tony messed with him. He's keeping the money, and lying about not being able to understand the transaction history. He seems to think that people will believe him and somehow it makes Tony look bad, which is false.
  3. Bob has enough money that the $1800 doesn't matter much to him and he figures he'll be made whole eventually, and doesn't want his friends arguing.

I will never buy anything from Omar/Arcade Game. That's the conclusion I drew while procrastinating cleaning up my office. I want my 15 minutes back.
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I struggle with severe anxiety, so I can see your point.
 
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tonyt76 said:
I struggle with severe anxiety, so I can see your point.
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It seems to me you did drive Omar nut somehow with whatever condition you are having (to be honest most people dont need to know or care about that)
And it's not an excuse to make other feel that way even if you have severe anxierty or whatever. I reckon in the nut shell, Omar did not just do all of this shady shit out of the blue. He must have been annoyed the fucked out by Tony. imho, both parties should be more tolerated toward each others.
 
GumGum said:
It seems to me you did drive Omar nut somehow with whatever condition you are having (to be honest most people dont need to know or care about that)
And it's not an excuse to make other feel that way even if you have severe anxierty or whatever. I reckon in the nut shell, Omar did not just do all of this shady shit out of the blue. He must have been annoyed the fucked out by Tony. imho, both parties should be more tolerated toward each others.
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Oh so that justifies scamming people? Normally you’d end the deal with that person and refund them.
 
Yeah like if I had an Aero and the intended buyer was giving me a hard time, I would simply offer it up to one of the 9000 other people who want an Aero.
 
dos said:
Yeah like if I had an Aero and the intended buyer was giving me a hard time, I would simply offer it up to one of the 9000 other people who want an Aero.
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Yeah, but what happens if intended buyer did a chargeback and froze your paypal account, but then cancels chargeback and says to sell cab to a third party because the intended buyer took third party’s money, then says you have the original money and need to refund him or third party again or send a cab, but you say you don’t have the money cause paypal never released it to you?

Then a thread pops up drawing light to this and 100 people pile on asking for proof of funds somewhere?

Edit: In case it isn’t obvious, this is where we are at and OP says he’s dealing with it in private so I’m gonna wait till he says otherwise.
 
Yeah absolutely it's a more complicated situation now. Still don't understand why Bob hasn't been refunded. Feels like both original parties should have mutually agreed not to do the deal.

I wonder if Tony just did the charge back with no warning, or initially asked to cancel and get refunded and Omar refused or kept dragging things out? Normally a chargeback is a last resort kinda thing. My comment was basically to say it shouldn't have come to a chargeback, if Tony was acting like he didn't want to do the deal Omar should have just refunded straight away and moved on to another buyer as it's not hard to find someone to buy an Aero. If everything was going fine and Tony just did a chargeback out of nowhere without asking first to cancel and get refunded, that would be weird as hell.
 
If Horacio was way late on delivering something then maybe Tony has a case. But the agreed upon time hadn't even elapsed. Nothing was late or wrong. Tony is just an ants in his pants person who couldn't take waiting anymore and suddenly wanted out of something he'd already committed to and paid for, knowing there was a wait. Tony, you're anxious, you're whatever, you're still a grown ass man. If you can't handle the pressure of waiting don't start deals that have timelines attached to them.

I dunno how other people do business, personally I've been in this game for too long and dealt with too many people to not want to just make things easy even when my customer is being unreasonable. So yeah, I'll refund people, I'll do whatever to take care of the problem. I don't need threads like this in my life. And then I'll never do business with them again and let anyone who asks me know it's not worth the headache.

I 100% would have just refunded Tony and walked away from him.

But that's just because of how I feel, I don't really think you automatically should get your money back when you've committed to a process. You sure as fuck shouldn't be doing a chargeback. You made a deal, the other person didn't break their side, what the hell are you doing? Like, even if Horacio said "nah, you paid for it, I've started it, I'm not giving you your money back" you gotta hold that. Wait for the cab and sell it, whatever. At no point is a chargeback cool.
 
I agree, but apparently Horacio didn't have the funds to cover a refund since he spent them on the initial restoration. So... either he shouldn't start projects that he can't finance himself... or he should have made a deal to refund once it's sold. Another option would be to have a contract (i know they suck... but there's a reason they exist). Essentially making backing out of the deal not a legal possibility.

In the past I've seen dealings with Horacio but never anything I would call scammy. There's quite a few people in this hobby who go unnecessarily hard in the paint with their lives, finances, and space. Some of them over extend 1 or all 3.

The only time I would say a chargeback is cool is if you bought something and were delivered something else or nothing and the seller refuses to work with you. For instance when my buddy bought a container full of Astros and they never shipped... you don't just say oh I'll wait and give him another year and see what happens. A chargeback is by no means part of a normal transaction. If someone did a chargeback to me I would never ever in a million years sell to them ever again.
 
You know why a bunch of people aren't lining up for the easy money of cab restores? Because it's way too much work to actually be worth it most of the time. Either you do it yourself, you pay a lot more money, or you be less picky. Anyone who's restored a cab knows what a PITA even a basic strip down, clean, paint, and decal job is. And how much time you can spend on it.

All this is over $1800. You know what that gets you today? A fresh off the boat cab, grab your Simple Green and be ready to fix and replace things. Maybe you have enough left over to pay for some new buttons and levers.

My friend just finished a full Aero restore. Powder coat, done up nice etc. Won't share his detailed numbers, but the total was in the $4k range. And that's not counting his own labor, just paying for transportation, powder coating etc. (It looks bad ass.)

As the saying goes, you can have cheap, fast, or quality, pick two.

Anyways, not excusing sloppy work that wasn't what was agreed on or anything. Just saying, don't get into this end of things if you're not patient or spending a lot of money (that you actually spend, not ask for back when you get antsy).
 
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