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Tiger Heli - is it the PCB or the supergun?

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thaIllsburyFlowboy

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Hi all,

I have had a lot of issues getting a supergun/PCB setup going. After ordering two each of superguns, PCBs, and finally monitors I’ve finally gotten the game to display something but it’s unfortunately too garbled to be playable. The color issue is modified, but not fixed, by selecting different options under the Retrotink 5X’s “ADC 2” menu. I am wondering if I might be able to take readings with my multimeter to determine where this is coming from or if the Retrotink is simply not compatible with this game. Links to pics below.

My setup is Tiger Heli PCB -> JAMMA adapter -> supergun -> RGB SCART cable -> Retrotink 5X -> HDMI cable -> computer monitor. The same setup does not work on my (older but still otherwise working) HDTV, and only the second (cheaper) supergun I ordered works. I also tried running the supergun straight into the TV and that has sound but no video. I can run a cheap 60-in-1 PCB into the working supergun and it displays fine, although the up button doesn't work. In all, I have to say this has been incredibly expensive and I have to wonder if the arcade PCB experience is always this faulty and unreliable.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lDK7aGlFy-02SECsAwrFH4paW5DIb5om/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mFWRzPpsCRTeYlVhkzQSKjlONWEVCb2O/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18PcyMxgaYZeyeqRwc5sJ1xAwIVODFlbC/view

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k1ftnDOj2DlqT1s_L-oT760c4R_b9Q9_/view
 
I can't speak to any of that stuff you are using to play arcade games, but my guess is the PCB. Try unhooking the ribbon cables between the two boards, cleaning the connectors with QD or another contact cleaner, then reseating the ribbon cables.

And check your voltages.
 
Did you buy the tiger heli as working ?

It should work ok
If Your other PCB’s are working with the same
Set up..

Do you have a voltage led display on your jamma loom ?
Do you have a digital multi meter to measure your volts ?

Then you have your tiger heli adaptor that could be the issue .

I have 27 cabs and a test bench or 2 ..
Having another jamma setup with a crt just to confim if something is working correctly in as basic a set up as was originally intended is as you are discovering sometimes very handy to confirm working /non
 
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I agree - that looks like a problem with your Tiger-Heli board and not your SuperGun or upscaler. Can you share some pictures of your Tiger-Heli board? Do you have another JAMMA game you can try?
 
Thanks for the replies, gang. Yes, the PCB was sold as working. I have a 60-in-1 PCB that I got for about $35 and that at least is displaying correctly with the same setup although the up button does not work (might be the controller). I bought that and all the superguns and cables as new, so the degree of difficulty here has been surprising. I am wondering if the Tiger Heli PCB and the first supergun were just bad out of the box. I will also try the original adapter I got with the TH PCB but I got a replacement for that as well. So literally every component of the setup I've had to replace. Crazy. Actually I had to buy two RGB cables for the second supergun because CSYNC is on pin 5 and not pin 4? This shit is incredibly esoteric. When you guys say to check voltage please be aware that I'm a humble console guy up to this point and don't know what that means. With Gen AI I've managed some simple checks with a cheap multimeter and I think the readouts are OK?

Below are some pics of the PCB. I've tried reseating the connectors between the top/bottom and also cleaning the edge connector with alcohol. I have not cleaned the connector pins with alcohol but that might be difficult because of their size.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PVTtCFeExIvEJIya9ILY4h2nPQYvmMiL/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Rv4YMY1HlyeztR6MTcnWgeOTaUyT9UR6/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T_ZOVyoQcTH01uP8Zdvlh725GHhTFWAe/view?usp=sharing
 
You must check voltages ..

It is imperative

You need to have 5v
Or 5.1v but no more.

In large PCB’s double layer etc ..

Especially bootlegs .
It’s worth checking the furthest away chip voltage pins for correct volts on the vcc leg ..

As to low a voltage here in the video section of the pcb will result in no picture
 
Thanks guys.

Using this diagram:

https://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin...erHeli.txt&type=pinout&utm_source=chatgpt.com

I measured the relevant voltages.

+5 V at contact 3: _4.97__ V
+5 V at contact C: _5.06__ V
+5 V at contact 20: __4.96_ V
+5 V at contact X: __5.08_ V
+12 V at contact 4: _11.96__ V
+12 V at contact D: __0_ V

The only one that seems badly out of spec is D, but then this passed continuity tests using both the bare PCB and adapter (as well as the adapter's connections to the JAMMA side). So, it's probably close to 12v and I just can't angle the multimeter properly.

Other checks: Tried pressing on socketed chips (they're in firmly), tried removing, cleaning, and reseating connector cables (not sure if they're the correct orientation; should the red stripe be closest to the edge connector?). I also tried adjusting the RGB trimpots in the supergun and the brightness switch which changed the onscreen colors but did not affect graphical distortions. Supergun still runs my test PCB OK. I also tried the original Toaplan to JAMMA adapter it came with and that doesn't affect it either.

I think at this point my only hope is that it's some sort of setting on the Retrotink 5X. I can't bypass it unless this supergun's MD2 output is capable of running composite, and that's not too clear.
 
@thaIllsburyFlowboy From examining your photos, it looks to me like your Tiger Heli board is a bootleg - it's missing most of the decoupling ceramic capacitors along the right edge of the board and to the right of many of the TTL logic components that you can see on pics of a legitimate board here. http://www.toaplan.org/hardware/th_boards.html
It's also running Goldstar parts manufactured in Korea rather than Japan parts, which is another bootleg tell.

Bootleg boards are often more fragile and more flaky than original boards. In addition to checking the voltages - which you already did, and those look to be in spec - I'd recommend carefully prying up each socketed chip out of its socket one at a time, and spraying out the holes of each socket with either compressed air or (ideally) electrical contact cleaner like DeOxIt. Then reinstall the chip firmly into the socket, making sure that the notch on the chip matches orientation of the notch on the socket.

If you search Amazon for a "chiplifter" you'll find a great removal tool for around $10. Amazon stocks the DeOxIt in a little tube for around $10 as well.
 
STC, this is a fantastic piece of info that I couldn't find anywhere else. Generative AI told me the board was legitimate - it's almost as though those things are fallible machines trained on internet (mis)information. I feel more secure in my job already!

I'll apply this knowledge when searching for a replacement board, and I'll also give the deoxit trick a go. I think the only option beyond that would be to measure the chips, and if I can find a fault, obtain a similar chip and an EEPROM burner and then burn the relevant Tiger Heli chip to the new chip. In plain English, an out and out replacement will be much less of a PITA and way more idiot proof. I think I'll still keep this one for parts.
 
Update after removing all socketed ICs and spraying with Deoxit:

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/YgQXhv3jvjQ


I'm getting color changes when I gently flex the edge connector using the adapter (see above video). It's green/black at its lowest position, orange-ish in the middle, and the usual messed up color when up top. When I use the adapter it came with (which is itself just wires, so it's flexible) I get the "usual" color.

Also when it's green/black, there is a hum in the background and an explosion of color when I insert a coin.

Apart from that ChatGPT says that I might check a chip called 74LS299.

"If you are checking its supply voltage, the 74LS299 uses:

  • Pin 20: +5 V
  • Pin 10: ground
Those pin assignments are confirmed by the Texas Instruments SN74LS299 datasheet."

My ideas at this point are to take it to an arcade in Nashville and see if they will let me jam it into one of their JAMMA cabinets to test it. I will also check the above pins. If it's displaying garbage through another JAMMA setup with both adapters I think that would strongly implicate the PCB, but it would be nice to know what part of it is damaged such that I can determine which parts are still usable.
 
OK it's not letting me edit the above post, but I checked all 5 chips labeled 74299 at pins 10, 17, and 20 with the black probe at 10. Red probe at pin 20 yielded ~4.96 for all of them, and 10 to 17 was fluctuating which is apparently normal and a logic probe is needed to get a more detailed readout. So, the issue does not seem to be the 74LS299 chips.

Edit (I seem to be able to edit this one): Different colors from ADC 2 selections is normal Retrotink 5X behavior according to some users on their Discord server.
 
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Update for future internet users: It was the PCB. I picked up another copy and it works fine. One of the superguns I bought (the more expensive one) is definitely dead too though which complicated the diagnosis.

It's a shame to throw the PCB out but it seems like the cost of repair would exceed the value of a new one. Same with the supergun. Maybe I can sell them as-is.
 
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