Unresponsive Buttons on Dance Maniax

[MisterRadon]

Hello everyone, new to the forums but this is a resource I could definitely see myself using many times in the future. I just purchased a Konami Dance Maniax (System 573 digital) cabinet and when it arrived, the machine booted properly but the P1 start, service button, and coin mech are all not responding. Other buttons may not be working as well (though the P1 left/right arrows, test mode button, and degauss button are all working), but with no way to navigate the test menu or coin the machine up, I haven't been able to test them easily. I know these are all next to each other on pins 15-17 of the jamma, and I've asked a couple of people who have suggested that the issue is either the ground wiring, the jamma harness itself, or that it could be a power issue. Roughly 10% of the time I turn the game on, the machine will restart itself repeatedly on powerup with a clicking sound and the monitor clearly turning on and off repeatedly, and according to an article I read on gamerepair this is probably due to a bad power supply. So I figured the power supply would be the most likely culprit and the easiest to check. I took it out of the machine only to not see any adjustable components on the power supply, and it appears to be a rather bulky unit that I'm not familiar with.

So as someone who knows his way around the inside of an arcade machine but is completely a novice to repairs of this nature, what should I be looking to do? Should I narrow down my other options first? Is there a way to make sure the correct voltage is being supplied? And if there isn't, how would I go about tracking down a replacement power supply? The same article suggested that a replacement could be wired in using a standard AT/ATX power supply by bridging the sense wires, but to be frank I don't know what that means much less how to do it.

Thanks for having me and for any help you can provide!

 

[nem]

You should just replace the old PSU. Get a proper arcade one with adjustable +5V. Happ Power Pros are cheap and decent enough. You'll likely have to do some rewiring and need to crimp new connectors.

 

[twistedsymphony]

The same article suggested that a replacement could be wired in using a standard AT/ATX power supply by bridging the sense wires, but to be frank I don't know what that means much less how to do it.

Don't do this... it's a really hacky solution. While technically it will "work" arcade boards, including the System 573 need adjustable PSUs and ATX PSUs are not.

Rhythm game players are a different bunch, they're buying the machines for the love of the game but I see A LOT of really terrible electrical advice from that group because that one cab they bough is often their first or only experience with arcade machines or electronics in general. Often times some noob bought a non-working machine. threw some shit together to get their cab working, posted about it and then that becomes the path that everyone else follows even though it's often a terrible idea.

The first thing I would recommend doing is looking for modifications in the cab, spliced wires, electrical tape, wire-nuts. chewing gum. Modules that look like they were installed NOT from the factory, etc. Post pictures here and we can help guide you in how to undo all of that damage back to factory spec.

Once you've assessed that, tackling the PSU should be the next course, and then finally the buttons.

Do you have a multimeter? you'll need one.

 

[everten]

chewing gum

 

[awbacon1]

Gaffers tape

 

[MisterRadon]

Okay, I took some photos, thanks for the early advice! I do have a multimeter, but when I busted it out last night it was dead on batteries and the stores were already closed so I couldn't buy more, fixed that.

I don't see any modifications to any of the wiring, it's all clean and organized and looks how I would expect it to look. The only thing I've noticed is that one of the connections going into the power supply did not have the green/yellow cable going into it like the other did, and that the opposite side of the connection did have that wire. I haven't done a deep dive yet, but I don't see a spare wire floating about like it had been disconnected. It looks like it just screwed into the side of the unit as a ground and then chained off to a bunch of other points in the cabinet.

The pictures represent the state of the machine after taking out the power supply last night. I've since dusted out most of what I can only assume is 20 years of accumulated particles. I'll put it back together once I can confirm that that wire isn't in fact missing, and break out the multimeter then.

 

[twistedsymphony]

it's a relief to see unmodified harnesses in there. I think the lack of the green/yellow wire is normal, that's earth ground and and usually it's left off of the last harness in the line on Japanese cabs. Not sure why.

@psychicdrive might be able to look these pics over to see if there are any less-obvious things out of place as I know he owns one of these cabs.

For the multi meter I'd start testing the DC output levels on the 5V and 12V lines to see if they're out of whack, most likely that's what leading to your failure to start/clicking.

looking at the photos the PSU board on the left is your DC power supply and it looks like there's a little yellow pot on it for adjustment. it's hard to say for sure though as I'm not familiar with this PSU and can't read the silk screen... take a close look to see if it's labeled and don't adjust it until you've confirmed and tested the output. it also looks like there there's manybe another DC PSU below it. The equipment on the right is likely for driving all of the lamps and/or audio amplification, I wouldn't worry too much about it right now.

you might also want to put your multimeter in continuity test mode (the one that beeps when you touch the leads together). and then with the cab off, or the control panel disconnected from the cab, test the leads of the buttons one by one to see if they're making contact when you push the button, this will confirm if the buttons working or if the issue is deeper in the cab.

 

[MisterRadon]

For the multi meter I'd start testing the DC output levels on the 5V and 12V lines to see if they're out of whack

Okay, so bit of a thick question, but where exactly in the machine should I be testing these? In the power supply unit? On the Jamma edge? What elements of the machine need power/to be on in order to do those tests with the multimeter? I only barely know what I'm doing with a PSU/Multimeter on a modern power supply, I'm totally in the dark on this massive unit. Not exactly sure how I could get in and look at the PSU while it's on given the design of the cabinet, but then I don't really know about which of the molexes if any need connection. If none, then it shouldn't be too bad, I can just slide it out and fire it up and see what's going on in there,

Did check continuity though and everything is good there. I probably need to double check since I looked hoping it would be a little clearer and didn't commit it totally to memory when it wasn't as clear as I'd hoped, but I believe the silkscreening on that pot read "202."

You're not wrong about rhythm game players/buyers, I've definitely seen some hackjobs just in passing. I grabbed a few cabs to start my collection in the past year, and was fortunate to only have very minor, obviously diagnosed issues until this one. Though I do have a year of arcade employment experience, it was minimum wage, mostly unskilled work, and it's on the cusp of having been 20 years ago, so a lot of those memories have fuzzed. I was never asked to tackle anything electrical, though I sure do have some horror stories. But, we keep about a dozen cabs in different need of repair at my current job, and it seems I may be overseeing a full arcade within the next year or so, so all of this guidance will be valued a hundredfold as time goes on. Much more patient than some online groups I've dealt with. Massive thanks!

 

[twistedsymphony]

to test DC voltages you'll want to set your meter to the solid line with the dashed line above it, sometimes it will actually be labeled "DC"

the black lead (COM socket on the meter) goes on ground and the red lead goes on 5V. what you're actually measuring is the voltage difference between the two leads.

conventional wisdom is that when you're adjusting voltages you want to find a chip on the PCB (any chip really) and probe the 5V and Ground pins of that chip and adjust to 5V exactly as measured on the chip. The idea being that long runs of wire and connectors cause the voltages to drop. So if you're measuring on a chip then that's what the Board is actually running at. Measuring 5V on the chip and then go and measure at the PSU and you'll likely find it's probably closer to 5.5V

in this case though with the 573 having a giant metal cage measuring at the JAMMA edge is good enough, what you're really looking for is to see if the PSU is stable and within range, maybe move the harness around and see if it cuts out or dips/spikes.

it couldn't hurt to clean the JAMMA edge on the PCB either (I use Liquid DeOxIt and a fiberglas scratch pen, but you can get away with denatured alcohol and some paper towels) you'd be surprised how many "non-working" PCBs I've bought where a dirty edge connector (that didn't even look dirty) was the only problem.


for the continuity tester I mean testing the wires is fine but I was suggesting you test the buttons... buttons are a wear item, like the tires on your car, or a pair of sneakers they're only going to last so long before they wear out and stop doing their job properly. probing the leads of the button you should get no connectivity when the button is not pressed, and solid connectivity when it's pushed...

if the buttons test good you can take it a step further with the cab off you can probe between ground and the button pins of the JAMMA connector to see if you get connectivity when the button is pushed. that will test the harness.

if that proves out good then with the cab powered on and your multi meter in DC voltage mode you can probe between ground and the button pins on the JAMMA edge and you should read 5V when the button is NOT pressed and 0V when the button is pressed. that's usually a good indicator that the IO portion of the PCB is functioning properly.

 

[MisterRadon]

Sorry, to clarify, I was testing the continuity on the buttons in particular, and everything was looking good.

A randomly broken probe wire, a trip to the store for a better multimeter, and a little bravery later (I wasn't getting any readings off the jamma harness or edge but maybe I was doing it wrong?), I took the shell off the 573 and started probing around in there. First thing I noticed is that the DVD drive was replaced, which isn't surprising at all given the age and unreliability of those components, but also unless the screws in the top of the shell were holding the drive up, it didn't seem to be harnessed in. There's a little cage that holds it (you can see the corner of it in this photo) but that just seemed to be floating free over the board.

Anyways, I started checking the voltage on some of the chips. I was getting a 5.08 on the chips on the raised secondary board, so that seems fairly okay. I wasn't able to really get any great readings on the main board, maybe due to the small size of the chip legs and the angle I had to operate in, but something that DID happen - If I tried to take any readings off that 2x4 bank of chips underneath the ribbon cable in the photo, it'd give me like a 3.38 but it would also cause the machine to start clicking and rebooting itself until I removed the leads. Which doesn't seem good? Not sure if that's telling or just a symptom of sloppy testing.

 

[twistedsymphony]

I wasn't getting any readings off the jamma harness or edge but maybe I was doing it wrong?

I mean you want to touch the metal from the probe to the metal of the pin... if you're not getting a reading then you're not getting contact.

I was getting a 5.08 on the chips on the raised secondary board, so that seems fairly okay.

5.08 is a bit high for a reading on the PCB itself. usually you'll want it right at 5.00
on some PCBs even 5.10 can damage components.

I wasn't able to really get any great readings on the main board, maybe due to the small size of the chip legs and the angle I had to operate in,

There's no real reason to test multiple points on the PCB for a simple voltage adjustment I would suspect if the board started to reset with your probing that you were shorting out pins with the probes... definitely try to avoid doing that.

I should also note that generally you'll want to pick a specific chip that you know the pinout of so you can be sure you're probing the 5V and Ground pins of that chip. if you're just probing random chip legs you're going to get all kind of useless readings.

another good option is to find a decoupling capacitor and probe it's legs as typically one is tied to 5V and the other to ground.

 

[MisterRadon]

Was definitely taking measurements wrong on the jamma edge. Thanks for being patient with me, it takes me a while to get used to working with unfamiliar hardware, and most hardware is unfamiliar to me, haha. Anyways, most pins on the jamma (only measured parts side so far) are giving 5.08, getting a 5.22 on pin 10, 12.46 on pin 6 & 8, nothing on pins 9 and 11, and as expected, nothing on the trouble buttons (16, 17). The video pins (12, 13) were giving me fluctuating readings that I'm guessing is tied to the color balance on the screen at any given frame? The only weird anomaly that I'm inclined to chalk up to user error was that I was getting swings on pin 23, starting at 5.8 and incrementally jumping down to 0.1 before bouncing back up to 4.1 and then back down again. Dance Maniax shouldn't be using this pin, but I kept taking measurements on it until eventually it evened out. I'm going to guess that I was barely making contact on that. Sounds like I need to turn the power down? But I'm still not sure if that pot on the power supply unit is what I'm looking for, so I'm holding off on jumping to that conclusion until someone more familiar can co-sign it for me.

 

[nem]

https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/JAMMA#Jamma_connector_pinout

Pins 16 and 17 excluded, all of those voltages sound more or less fine (although pin 23 is a bit weird. I'm going to put that down to poor contact on the pin). +5V is slightly high, but not excessively so IMO.

My first priority would be to get the game running 100%, then figure out the rest of the issues (buttons, etc). However, it probably didn't reboot while you were measuring voltages? So yeah, it's very possible that was just down to some connector making poor contact like @twistedsymphony said.

(I will say this though. PSUs are cheap, and eventually you'll have to replace them either way. For a clean install, you should try replacing the open frame PSU(s) inside the cage. While you are working on the cab, you should take them out, take down the measurements and the model numbers.)

As for pins 16 and 17, no voltage there points to either some issue with the actual board or the buttons being held down / on. If you unplug the harness, does it show continuity between pins 16 and 17 and GND?

EDIT: a million edits, sorry. I skipped parts of this thread like a doofus.

 

[MisterRadon]

Pin 17 gets continuity, pin 16 does not. And yep, no reboots during measurements, that problem hasn't been happening in the past few days. I have some preliminary pictures of the boards as well, took everything out so I could look for any telltale signs of damage, and nothing jumps out at me right away but my eyes are both tired and not trained.

Replacing the PSU is certainly on the table, and if it was as simple as throwing a Happ in there it'd already be ordered and on its way. Have to admit that the idea of making any modifications to make a new one work on this machine is making me hesitate, so I'm saving that as a last resort for now. Not stubborn about it, just scared.

 

[twistedsymphony]

The only weird anomaly that I'm inclined to chalk up to user error was that I was getting swings on pin 23, starting at 5.8 and incrementally jumping down to 0.1 before bouncing back up to 4.1 and then back down again.

This very well could be related to your button problem.

I don't know about Dance Maniacs but DDR uses buttons 2 and 3 for the left and right arrows on the control panel, so pin 23 would be player 1 menu right, that should be stable 5V unless the button is pushed and then it should drop to 0V during the button push. (if you have a PDF copy of the manual I can confirm pinout)

it's possible that there is damage in the harness somewhere causing a short. A Short on a power wires could also cause anomalous resets and failures to start. Alternatively there could be a problem with the System 573's button handling circuit.

troubleshooting that is a lot more complicated but a good/easy way to test would be to install your 573 in another good, working cab (ANY JAMMA cab, it doesn't have to be a Dance Maniax) and see if the buttons still don't work or you get similar readings on pin 23

it could also be user error but I think this warrants further investigation.

it's also not lost on me that this is the pin that would get 12V damage if the JAMMA edge was installed backwards. Does your JAMMA connector have a key pin?

 

[MisterRadon]

No copy of the manual unfortunately. The machine shipped with what I think is a replacement parts list/order sheet from Konami, but no manual, and I've had no luck tracking down a PDF. I can definitely try putting the 573 in a different JAMMA cab, but it may take me some time to do that, as luck would have it neither of my other cabs are suitable for the task, so I'll have to take it into work to test it out when I have time.

Yes on the key pin, by the way, obviously can't say if it was tampered with prior to arriving here, but haven't had any issues with it so far. I did some further continuity testing today on the harness, so I know that the switches for the start buttons are working all the way down into there, is there a way I could test for a short? I fired it up and tested pin 23 again, all normal there. While I was in there I thought I'd run through and get a full list of reading and now I feel like I'm going crazy. Pin 17 is giving out 5.08, but the start button is still not responsive. Pin 16 was giving me like a 0.48 at best. I tested it a few times, sometimes it would level at .48 and hold there, sometimes it would decrease from .4 range down to .15 or so, sometimes it would hold around .27. Last I checked before today it was definitely a 0. I tested it a few more times and got .48 every time. Gave it 5 minutes, turned it back on, tested pin 16 again, and it was going from about .88 down to .35 before wobbling slightly between .45 and .54, right in that .48 range.

EDIT: I have no idea if any of this is relevant, but after making this post, I decided to have a look at something that was bothering me. The machine only has 1 coin switch on it right now, and sure enough there were wires on the jamma for 2 slots to be connected. So I figured I'd disconnect the superfluous wire and see if anything changed. From a results/function perspective, the answer is no. But from a voltage perspective, absolutely. Does this mean anything?

Before removing wires - 0.48
Coin Switch #2 not connected - 2.2
Coin Switch #1 & #2 not connected - 3.36, no volts on pin 17
Coin Switch #1 not connected - 0.8, volts returned on pin 17
Both switches connected again - 1.25

 

[twistedsymphony]

If everything is working properly
Pin 16 should be +5V normally
Pin 16 should be 0V when holding down the P1 coin switch

Pin 17 should be +5V normally
Pin 17 should be 0V when holding down the P1 Start Button

Pin 22 should be +5V normally
Pin 22 should be 0V when holding down the P1 LEFT Menu Button

Pin 23 should be +5V normally
Pin 23 should be 0V when holding down the P1 RIGHT Menu Button

0V here can be anything between 0 and 0.5V to work.
5V here can be anything above 4.75V

 

[MisterRadon]

All good on Pin 17, this particular cab apparently uses 18 and 19 for the left/right arrows on the cab front, all good there too -- 5.08 normally, 0V when the button is held down. Still no output from the start button on 17 though.

16 does close down to 0V when the switch is held down and today, for reasons I'm not sure of, the readings kept getting higher and higher seemingly the longer I left the machine running when it wasn't being held down, but seemed to stop around 4.5. Still no response there either.

 

[twistedsymphony]

when you say "Still no output from the start button on 17 though" does you mean it doesn't stay at 5V normally and drop to 0V when pushed... or it DOES do that and there is no response in-game?

on the coin switch, if you unplug the connectors from the switch itself, what does each wire read when compared to ground on the JAMMA edge?

if you the two wires together while they're unplugged from the switch what do you get for a reading on pin 16?

 

[MisterRadon]

It does stay at 5.08 normally on Pin 17, and if the button is pushed/held it does drop to 0V. But there is no response from the game, it does not register the button press.

On the coin switch, there's two wires, the green wire going to Pin 16, and a black ground wire. The ground-to-ground connection reads 0.00, the green wire read .25 when I first turned the machine on after work today. Then maybe 2-3 minutes later was doing 3.2, then a few seconds later was doing 4.75. This was not something that I measured in real time, I would take the probes off, go to remeasure it, and the values had already changed, it was not an escalating number while the probes were checking the pins/wire. With the two wires unplugged, used a piece of solder to bridge them together (I think this is what you were asking for?) and the reading on 16 became 0, but the game did not register any coins from this. Also note there's a green/yellow earth ground wire in this bundle as well that screws into the inside of the coin door panel. This was not grounded during these tests due to cabling restrictions. Don't know if that makes an impact.