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Zebra

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Does anyone here know if it's possible to use Raw Thrills IR monitor sensor boards with a Sega IR gun I/O board? Or is there something special about the Sega brand gun sense IR boards that makes them unique (in terms of compatibility with their gun I/O)?

I am looking to buy a set of monitor sensors for a project and the Raw Thrills ones cost a fraction of the Sega ones. I would just use a Raw Thrills I/O board but they cost a lot more than the Sega gun boards. If the Raw Thrills monitor sensors are not compatible with a Sega I/O, are there any other (less expensive) generic IR boards to work with Sega gun games?
 

twistedsymphony

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on the Sega setup the sensors are the modules inside the guns. the little modules that go around the monitor are simple addressable IR LEDs. So, are you looking for the LED modules or the sensor modules?

You can usually find the Sega LED modules for under $15 a piece $10 if you hunt for a bit. I've got 5 or so full sets of them personally, they're pretty easy to come by.

I honestly don't know anything about the Raw Thrills equipment, though I was under the impression that they used an IR camera setup, which is completely different than Sega's IR setup. I could be wrong though if you have any links to pictures or part numbers I could give you an better idea of compatibility.
 

Hydreigon

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I honestly don't know anything about the Raw Thrills equipment, though I was under the impression that they used an IR camera setup, which is completely different than Sega's IR setup. I could be wrong though if you have any links to pictures or part numbers I could give you an better idea of compatibility.
It's more than that. The camera assembly itself is essentially a separate I/O board responsible for all gun inputs. It connects directly to the computer as opposed to the main I/O board. It's a pretty crappy assembly anyway due to poor analog coding.
 

Zebra

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Both Sega and Raw Thrills guns have the camera (that some call a sensor) in the gun and led boards (which some people also confusingly call sensors) around the monitor.

I am asking about the monitor led boards - the ones where you mount 10 or 12 of them around the screen bezel. Like these:

https://www.betsonparts.com/amuseme...oard-will-not-work-on-super-deluxe-games.html

I can't find a set of Sega led's for less than $200 or $150 if I am prepared to take a risk on one of those "untested" ebay lots. I can get a full set of Raw Thrills led boards for around $30. So I was wondering if they are interchangeable with a some kind of hack. I can see that the wiring harness has a different number of wires. I'm just not sure why.
 

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Oh...the LED/IR emitters. The Sega emitters (actually not developed by Sega lol) aren't replaceable. The original developer most likely hand crafted the emitters to prevent replacing the burnt emitters with aftermarket ones for cheap. @twistedsymphony made a valiant effort in measuring the specs of these emitters down to the bone to find a suitable replacement. That effort sadly didn't work.
 

twistedsymphony

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Both Sega and Raw Thrills guns have the camera (that some call a sensor) in the gun and led boards (which some people also confusingly call sensors) around the monitor.
Sega uses a Sensor, it's actually a variation on an IR motion sensor used by older security systems. There's no lens or any sort of video output from it at all. Raw Thrills uses a Camera.


I can get a full set of Raw Thrills led boards for around $30
Where? The Betson link says they're $24 a piece and you need to for a total of $240 + shipping for a full set.


The Sega emitters (actually not developed by Sega lol) aren't replaceable. The original developer most likely hand crafted the emitters to prevent replacing the burnt emitters with aftermarket ones for cheap
Correct. they were made by a company called OMZ and the IR emitters/sensors work in a non-standard range.


@twistedsymphony made a valiant effort in measuring the specs of these emitters down to the bone to find a suitable replacement. That effort sadly didn't work.
It didn't?! shit, why didn't anyone tell me!
 

Zebra

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OK thanks.

I'm surprised that nobody figured out how to make cheaper aftermarket replacements for those OMZ led boards. They are used in a lot of Sega games and have been for decades. They cost silly money for what they are. It seems like the sort of thing that someone would have a Kickstarter project for.

Oh well, I guess I'll have to continue watching ebay to see if any deals come up. It stops being worth it for a home project once you get above a certain price.
 

twistedsymphony

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I'm surprised that nobody figured out how to make cheaper aftermarket replacements for those OMZ led boards.
You could probably make repos for around $15 a piece, BUT the problem is, as stated earlier. they use proprietary LEDs that output in a non-standard wavelength... so you could repo the whole thing EXCEPT the LEDs themselves.

I bought a Light Spectrometer to determine the wave-length used. and I did just that. and I also bought a few dozen LED models advertised as working at or near that range to see if I could find any matching ones. I haven't got around to actually testing any of the LEDs I bought though. it's been a low priority on my project list.
 

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I'm surprised that nobody figured out how to make cheaper aftermarket replacements for those OMZ led boards. They are used in a lot of Sega games and have been for decades. They cost silly money for what they are. It seems like the sort of thing that someone would have a Kickstarter project for.
OMZ/Ohmic is extremely protective towards their sensor technology. They won't give away any data on their pcbs either. I don't know what else to say.
 

Zebra

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I get that, for various reasons, it is too difficult for us here to make a diy version. I just thought there would be some Chinese aftermarket ones by now. They seem to be able to copy everything else (including the gun sensors). As a practical matter, I'm not sure how proprietary a wavelength could be. It doesn't seem like the sort of thing one could patent.

What would be a good (or fair) price for a set of working ir monitor sense boards?
 

Zebra

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That listing states that they are "untested" and that same seller has other sets for $300 that are listed as "working". I have trust issues. If he has the means to test one set, then why not that one? Especially if it means doubling the price....

I read all listings that state "untested" to mean broken. This applies x10 to sellers who state "no returns for any reason".

Anyway, now that I know what a fair price is, I'll ask at my (last) local arcade to see if they'll sell me a set. They have an old (usually broken) Jurassic Park (the Sega one). Everything in that place needs a rescue...

Thanks for the info and a even bigger thanks for all the work you did on figuring out how to use arcade IR guns on home PC's. I like to use the right gun tech for each game. Now I can (I already have light guns and fixed positional arcade guns).
 

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That listing states that they are "untested" and that same seller has other sets for $300 that are listed as "working". I have trust issues. If he has the means to test one set, then why not that one? Especially if it means doubling the price....

I read all listings that state "untested" to mean broken. This applies x10 to sellers who state "no returns for any reason".

Anyway, now that I know what a fair price is, I'll ask at my (last) local arcade to see if they'll sell me a set. They have an old (usually broken) Jurassic Park (the Sega one). Everything in that place needs a rescue...

Thanks for the info and a even bigger thanks for all the work you did on figuring out how to use arcade IR guns on home PC's. I like to use the right gun tech for each game. Now I can (I already have light guns and fixed positional arcade guns).
Noob seller. He doesn't seem to have any good experience with arcade repair. Idk why he won't join arcade repair communities or so.
 

Zebra

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I don't think he has any interest in repairing stuff. His business is buying and selling only.

He has a lot of listings on ebay and his prices are almost always outrageous and well above other sellers. I'm amazed he ever sells anything. Most of his listings sit there unsold for years with no thought of ever reducing prices. It ain't 1995 any more. Most the commercial arcades are gone. It's mostly for enthusiasts like us now and we're probably not going to pay $150 for a broken Time Crisis gun.

Anyway "untested" is just not good enough on electronic items in that price range. They could all be broken and there is zero chance of repairing those things. How can you trust someone who can't even be bothered to test that it's working and won't accept returns.
 

Zebra

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I managed to get a working set of 12 from a Jurassic Park cab for $150 delivered. hopefully they'll work with a Ghost Squad I/O board. I know that games with larger screens use 12 led boards and others with smaller monitors use 10 but I'm not sure if you can use 12 sensors with an I/O from a 10 sensor game or how you are meant to tell how many an I/O board needs.
 

twistedsymphony

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I know that games with larger screens use 12 led boards and others with smaller monitors use 10
that's incorrect. Jurassic Park used 12 and every other game after used 10. It has nothing to do with screen size.

The jp gun sense board will only work with 12 but the naomi era boards have a switch to switch between 10 led mode and 12 led mode. Later boards dropped support for 12 leds.
 

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I know that games with larger screens use 12 led boards and others with smaller monitors use 10
that's incorrect. Jurassic Park used 12 and every other game after used 10. It has nothing to do with screen size.
The jp gun sense board will only work with 12 but the naomi era boards have a switch to switch between 10 led mode and 12 led mode. Later boards dropped support for 12 leds.
This explains why using a later IR gun board on Lost World doesn't work in 12 LED mode but works fine in 10 LED mode. I tested that myself :).
 

twistedsymphony

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Yeah, on the dual mode board you'll see a dip switch labeled
JUL <=> HOD

JUL for Jurassic Park The Lost World (12 led)
HOD for House of the Dead 2 (10 led)
 

Zebra

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OK that's good info to know.

It should mean I have two spares to start with which can't be bad.
 

Zebra

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I've been busy buying up the parts I need to use Sega arcade IR guns on a Windows PC and I wanted to ask if I have missed anything? So far I have:

- An IC gun sense I/O board
- 12 monitor gun sensors with connecting wires
- A gun protect pcb
- A complete working House of the Dead 4 arcade gun (the red Uzi)
- A gun sensor plus a gun harness to make a second recoil gun
- An Apac to connect the X and Y axis output from the I/O board to the Windows PC
- 50 feet of shielded cable

Is there anything else I need to buy to make this work?
 
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