JVS to Jamma Question

[Dreamstate]

Any reason why I should get the Capcom version of this over the final Sega version (the black box one that, I think, has the same stuff as the Capcom)? Need to pick one up and I seem to be able to find the Sega ones a bit cheaper.

 

[jassin000]

Uh... I think you are talking about the Capcom IO vs the (3rd? revision black boxed) Sega IO to get JVS controls?
If so, this thread should be retitled "JAMMA to JVS Question" because as is... This thread has an entirely different meaning.

 

[Dreamstate]

Hmm, I thought it would allow the Naomi JVS output to be used in a Jamma cabinet setup. Do I need something different for this? To be clear, I have a Jamma cabinet and I want to be able to use a Naomi system in it.

 

[twistedsymphony]

The game board is considered the "source" therefor:
"JVS to JAMMA" = Make a JVS game work on a JAMMA cabinet.
"JAMMA to JVS" = Make a JAMMA game work on a JVS cabinet.

I believe Sega's official documentation refers to their device as a "JVS to JAMMA Converter"

Similarly the Riverservice converter for JVS cabinets to play JAMMA games is referred to as as "JAMMA to JVS" converter.

as for the original question

Any reason why I should get the Capcom version of this over the final Sega version (the black box one that, I think, has the same stuff as the Capcom)? Need to pick one up and I seem to be able to find the Sega ones a bit cheaper.

People like the Capcom converter because the kick harness expansion connector is the same as CPS2/CPS3 so it makes swapping alongside those boards easier. the Capcom converter also supports 4-players (with P2 and P3 controls on the expansion connector similar to CPS2).

The Sega Converter used to be harder to find than the Capcom one because the Capcom converter was widely used so there were a lot available. but I think so many people have gone after it that the Sega one is now cheaper/easier to find.

the Sega Converter does have the advantage that it supports output pins for lamps, and some games will not function without those available. In general the Sega converter will have slightly better compatibility, but if all you're playing are fighting games and shmups and none of the games that use weird specialized controls then either will work fine.

you can see a compatibility chart here: NAOMI Net-Boot BIOS and I/O Board Compatibility Chart

 

[jassin000]

I thought it would allow the Naomi JVS output to be used in a Jamma cabinet setup. Do I need something different for this?

That's exactly what these do... When I see JVS to JAMMA I think you have a JVS cab and you want to convert that into JAMMA.
You have a JAMMA cab, that you want to run a JVS board in. In my mind this would be JAMMA (cab) to JVS (board).

The game board is considered the "source" therefor:

I reject this statement! The cab is the "base" upon which all boards are installed to.
X to Y is base to accessory, cab to board. If the cab is JAMMA, then this is a JAMMA to JVS conversion.
I don't care if I'm the only person who sees it this way, I refuse to adjust my perspective.

Anyway semantics aside, I've got the Capcom IO and I LOVE it!
I didn't have the version of the Sega IO with the black shell (mine was just a bare PCB).
The reason why the Capcom was/is my preferred is the power.

I didn't want to run a 2nd PSU in my cab for JVS voltages, using one (JAMMA) psu and adapting it is the way to go.
Do keep in mind the Capcom IO can't supply enough juice for a full Naomi GD-ROM/DIMM setup.
Without modification you are limited to pretty much carts only.

 

[twistedsymphony]

The game board is considered the "source" therefor:

I reject this statement! The cab is the "base" upon which all boards are installed to.X to Y is base to accessory, cab to board. If the cab is JAMMA, then this is a JAMMA to JVS conversion.

The "source" material is generally installed in something else.

Consider a DVD is the source material for your DVD player, and the DVD player is the source for your TV (with the DVD player often installed inside a caibnet).

Granted an arcade cab is a little more intertwined because the controls are built into the cabinet. But consider if you consolized an arcade board... that arcade board would be considered the source for your TV.

Similarly if you have an RGB console and want to hook it up to an HDMI display you'd look for an "RGB to HDMI" converter, not an "HDMI to RGB" converter.

 

[jassin000]

Granted an arcade cab is a little more intertwined because the controls are built into the cabinet.

You just nailed my point... The controls are part of the cab. The cab is the base, the board is the accessory.
So the controls inside the cab are what's being adapted, not the board.

Aka you are not adapting the board to the cab, you are adapting the cab for the board.

 

[penrhos]

there are issues with the sega one with some games if you don't have a coin meter connected up to your jamma connector (usually only a problem if using a supergun). This can be solved with a couple of resistors.

The big issue with both is neither output enough power to run a gdrom drive, compact flash drive or dimm board. They only work reliably with carts

 

[jassin000]

I think you NEED the Capcom IO if you want to use all 4 players in Power Stone 2.
The extra (P3/P4) characters are connected via the kicks port of the IO, just like on CPS2/3.

 

[skate323k137]

I think you NEED the Capcom IO if you want to use all 4 players in Power Stone 2.
The extra (P3/P4) characters are connected via the kicks port of the IO, just like on CPS2/3.

You do not need the capcom IO. It does work fine that way, but you can also chain 2 JVS IO boards, or 2 sega rev B type JAMMA IOs. never trust the "capcom IO demystified" page, it is inaccurate and the pinouts are wrong too. I've emailed the guy but never get a response.

Edit: mandatory "pics or it didn't happen"

Spoiler

 

[twistedsymphony]

Aka you are not adapting the board to the cab, you are adapting the cab for the board.

you can think about however you want but if you search for "JAMMA to JVS" when trying to find a way to use a JVS board in a JAMMA cab you're going to find the wrong items.

 

[Dreamstate]

Wow! Great conversation. I learned a number of things here. I think one point I "think" I heard was that the Capcom Kick harness is the same as a CPS2 Kick Harness. So, does the Sega (v3 again only) use a different pinout for it's kick harness?

I plan on getting a NetDimm so I should be able to avoid the extra power supply, so it sounds like I should be good there. Also, my cabinet has the coin slots hooked up so that should not be an issue.

JVS to Jamma or Jamma to JVS, you guys have answered my question. Thanks.

 

[twistedsymphony]

So, does the Sega (v3 again only) use a different pinout for it's kick harness?

it's a completely different style connector.

Capcom Converter uses a 34pin Hirose connector, while the Sega Converter uses a 14pin JST NH connector.

 

[arcadeWC]

Trying to tell from your picture, but were you able to "daisy-chain" two JVS Jamma I/O board together using the USB output of the one and run into another JVS Jamma I/O board? I tried this once and received an error related to having "too many I/O boards connected". I was trying to connect a JVS Jamma I/O with a Type 3 JVS board (non-Jamma) and got the error. I would really like the ability to use two JVS I/O boards daisy-chained together one for standard games and the other I/O for the driving/shooting games with the S-JIHP. Didn't think this was possible based on my experience with it but perhaps I need to relook at it. Just wanted to confirm that is what you have here and if you ran into any problems using more than one I/O board connected at the same time. Thanks.

I think you NEED the Capcom IO if you want to use all 4 players in Power Stone 2.
The extra (P3/P4) characters are connected via the kicks port of the IO, just like on CPS2/3.

You do not need the capcom IO. It does work fine that way, but you can also chain 2 JVS IO boards, or 2 sega rev B type JAMMA IOs. never trust the "capcom IO demystified" page, it is inaccurate and the pinouts are wrong too. I've emailed the guy but never get a response.
Edit: mandatory "pics or it didn't happen"

Spoiler

 

[skate323k137]

@arcadeWC it only works if the game supports multiple IOs. I don't think you can just leave them hooked up.

The way it works is as you guessed; the NAOMI is hooked to the first IO with a USB cable, then the 2nd USB port on the IO is linked to the next IO board.

Power Stone 2 supports this for 4 players (2 on each IO). Some other games like MvC2, CvS2, will support 1 player on each of the 2 IOs (making it pretty easy to link cabs for those games). Also the trackball games (virtua golf, outtrigger) use a 2nd IO in the chain for the trackball IO.

 

[jassin000]

I plan on getting a NetDimm so I should be able to avoid the extra power supply

This is where you are wrong... A NetDIMM (hell ANY DIMM period) is going to draw more power than a Capcom IO can provide.
Carts ONLY if using the power from the IO, DIMMs if using a real (or 2nd) JVS power supply.

 

[Dreamstate]

I plan on getting a NetDimm so I should be able to avoid the extra power supply

This is where you are wrong... A NetDIMM (hell ANY DIMM period) is going to draw more power than a Capcom IO can provide.Carts ONLY if using the power from the IO, DIMMs if using a real (or 2nd) JVS power supply.

Crap. Ok, well, looks like I will be getting a second power supply. Can you use a JVS power supply in a Jamma cabinet as the only one, or do you just need a second power supply period?

 

[jassin000]

Can you use a JVS power supply in a Jamma cabinet as the only one, or do you just need a second power supply period?

It could be the only one, but you will have to split the ground, 5v and 12v lines because the Capcom IO must be powered via JAMMA connector.
Often times it's just easier to leave the JAMMA stuff alone and stick in a Sun PSU only connected to the Naomi.

Or you could just do what I did... Get a Jorge 2-in-1 Naomi cart (solving the power issue) and give your DIMM/CF solution away (to Twistedsymphony).
Derick2k and myself are begging Darksoft to make us a proper Naomi multi cart (this would also solve the power hungry DIMM issue).

Talk to most Naomi scene people and you'll get the impression NetDIMM/NetBOOT is the way to go...
This "meh it works fine" or "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality is the primary reason why we don't have a proper flashcart today.

Fuk your DIMM nigga!

 

[twistedsymphony]

The NAOMI PSU will need AC power input and you should plug it's output into the NAOMI directly.

The Capcom or Sega Converter as well as the rest of your electronics should be powered from your original PSU.

technically you could swap in a NAOMI PSU to run the whole cab, but you'd be doing a lot of requiring/custom harness building to make it work. AND the NAOMI PSUs don't supply -5V so you'd lose that ability unless you wired in a Negatron or something similar.

the "easiest" solution is to run 2 PSUs, one for just the NAOMI and then your original PSU for everything else.

it is possible to upgrade the 3.3V voltage converter on the Sega or Capcom IO to avoid having to use a NAOMI PSU. Personally I've never done that as I think it's kinda sketchy. More info here if you're interested: Capcom I/O Upgrade to Power Up Dimm Boards?!

 

[jassin000]

it is possible to upgrade the 3.3V voltage converter on the Sega or Capcom IO to avoid having to use a NAOMI PSU. Personally I've never done that as I think it's kinda sketchy. More info here if you're interested: Capcom I/O Upgrade to Power Up Dimm Boards?!

Some people will hack up Dreamcast PSU's for the 3.3v line too... Always seemed sketchy to me as well.