SNK-NEO-GEO
Enlightened
Great.. thank you!
J
jassin000
Some Konami luv with the Simpsons on the Vewlix.
SLG in full effect, Ocean 2-Player ROMs flashed and functional.
SLG in full effect, Ocean 2-Player ROMs flashed and functional.
so does that fancy monitor support adaptive refresh rates or is it locked to 60Hz like most panels?
SNK-NEO-GEO
Enlightened
That is a great question.. I also want to know.. what is the max Hz on the new monitor?
J
jassin000
If we zoom in on Taito's flyer...
You can see the specs here...
You can see the specs here...
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for the chart in the bottom right:
first row
-model
-external dims
-screen size
-weight
-native resolution
-number of colors
-viewing angle
second row
-contrast ratio
-response time
-description of the glass
-lamp brightness
-lamp type
-input connectors
-power usage
I don't see anything related to refresh rate, at least not in the chart. Maybe one of the blurbs above it talks about it, but I don't read Japanese.
first row
-model
-external dims
-screen size
-weight
-native resolution
-number of colors
-viewing angle
second row
-contrast ratio
-response time
-description of the glass
-lamp brightness
-lamp type
-input connectors
-power usage
I don't see anything related to refresh rate, at least not in the chart. Maybe one of the blurbs above it talks about it, but I don't read Japanese.
I thought the same thing, 8ms is really slow for a gaming panel. Most dedicated gaming panels boast <2ms. and The common consensus is that you don't want to go slower than 5ms or you'll start to notice ghosting.
SNK-NEO-GEO
Enlightened
I sent Taito an email regarding the refresh rate and the actual input lag.. If and when I get a response I will posted.. But I think that 60hz is good for what the guys are using the monitors for, Arcade type games.
For me, it would be a different use case, PC arcade style games and that is why I am interested To know that but That monitor is not intended to target PC users so higher than 1080p and 60hz might have not been a requirement for the monitor.
For me, it would be a different use case, PC arcade style games and that is why I am interested To know that but That monitor is not intended to target PC users so higher than 1080p and 60hz might have not been a requirement for the monitor.
it's not about 60Hz being good or bad.. it's about support for older games that run SLOWER than 60Hz
A lot of JAMMA games run at 59Hz and some even as slow as 54Hz. Most LCDs are locked at 60Hz which means that the video converter has to make up the difference by either occasionally duplicating a frame, or screen tearing. frame duplication means that you'll get noticeable hiccups during scrolling animations, and screen tearing means that a portion of the frame will be 1 frame behind making it look like the picture is torn in half.
MAME and other emulators get around this by actually increasing the clock speed of the virtual PCB so that it outputs at 60Hz, which essentially makes the game run faster but is less noticeable in most cases. This obviously isn't an option when you're dealing with real (unmodified) hardware.
Panels that are locked to 120Hz or 240Hz are better equipped to deal with slower 59Hz or 54Hz refresh rates because things like frame duplication are much less apparent. (the duplicated frame would last 1/2 or 1/4th as long as it would on a 60Hz display).
The best solution is an adaptive display that is capable of supporting any refresh rate that is fed to it. CRTs can handle this no problem, which is why so many 15K games got away with it, but LCDs that can do this are exceedingly rare and is one of the big problems with migrating from CRT to LCD.
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SNK-NEO-GEO
Enlightened
I see what you mean.
I should mention that the whole reason we got 120Hz displays in the first place was to support movies that were shot in the industry standard 24FPS (ie 24Hz).When you have 24 frames in a second and a screen that refreshes 60 times a second then 60/24 = 2.5... that not clean that means that if you doubled every original frame you'd be too low and if you tripled it you'd be too high. to get around this they use a technique called "3:2 pull down" I wont get into the details but this makes most movies look "off" but most people can't put their finger on why. If you look at 120Hz displays then 120/24 = 5, which means that every original frame is duplicated 5 times. So you get a much smoother picture that matches the original content. Similarly 60Hz content can just have each frame doubled to match the 120Hz display.240Hz came about when newer movies (like the Hobbit) started going to 48FPS... now you have the frame mis-match on 120Hz displays but 240Hz displays will divide evenly, reproducing the picture accurately.... 60Hz content is now quadrupled cleanly, and 24FPS content is multiplied by 10 but is still cleanly divisible.When you're dealing with 59Hz or 54Hz content then none of those divide cleanly at 60, 120 or 240Hz, so either the video converter has to double or "stretch" frames, or the display has to be able to sync to non-standard refresh rates.
J
jassin000
Uh... This is incorrect information.
In the 32" size the current fastest LED monitor in the world is the BenQ BL3200PT at 4ms GTG.
When you start looking at TV's it becomes clear just how 8ms really stacks up to the competition.
damnnit. I wrote up a detailed response but then went to fix something and accidentally deleted the whole thing
.In any case response time is really separate from overall display lag. while low lag displays generally have better response times you can have a display with super fast signal processing but really crappy response time, or really good response time but really crappy signal processing. both contribute to the overall display lag. but there are many TVs (particularly those with high refresh rates) that have exceptionally fast response times because they need to to support that kind of refresh rate.
Most pc gaming panels, even those that have really bad lag tend to have good response time because gamer seem to hate ghosting.
There's also no standard for how to properly measure GTG response time so far all we know Taito is using a completely different methodology for determining that number than Panasonic or anyone else.
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The panels used in these replacements have a respectable 8ms GTG response time for a 32" panel. I think the fastest consumer panel that I have seen for a panel this size is 6ms. Also, its rated at 120Hz, but I am sure it is most likely locked or restricted to a 60hz input. I guess it would have to be tested, anyone know how?
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SNK-NEO-GEO
Enlightened
If you connect a PC to it, wouldn't the Windows OS allow you to change the hz? Or the Nvidia console or equivalent? I guess if you are able to select above or below 60hz then that would be the answer. I am thinking how a PC CRT monitor works here.. Not if the same on these panels.
J
jassin000
Yup this is unfortunately true, when company's list GtG lag results... In actuality its only a measure of the panel its self.
How fast can it change its pixel's color (gray to gray) and nothing more.
Even a fantastic GtG rated panel can have horrible processing lag.
Lowering its over all performance, perhaps even lower than that of a panel with a worse GtG rating.
looking around at a few different panels it seems most of the top rated panels are in the 3-6ms range not the <2ms I was thinking... I guess I'm too used to looking at DLP stuff which are usually so fast they're response time is measured in MICRO seconds
for testing overall display lag you'll want one of these: http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/?main_page=product_info&products_id=212 I would LOVE to see how this panel compares to consumer grade stuff. This would give us a good benchmark that we could compare the rest of the market to.
if you're talking about testing refresh rate, the best way to test would be to plug in something that you know is running at a lower refresh rate and see if it syncs.
The modes on your PC are what your graphics card is capable of outputting, not your display unless you've installed a driver specific for your display. I believe there is a spec for communication between the display and the PC but most displays don't support this. This is why when you change the graphics settings they give you that 15 second timer to confirm before it switches back... because your PC has no idea if the monitor supports or doesn't support the new resolution or refresh rate and if it's not supported then you'd be blind and unable to change it back.
Well, I have both screens available so I can test them. Just need to get a tester, let me see what I can find on amazon.
