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MiSTer FPGA

@Hatsune Mike keeping the pressure up. Thanks for your technial nputs for the CPS1 core - hopfully that might even mean a CPS2 core in the future.
https://twitter.com/moftsoft/status/1220432242255765505

Only thing which I disagree is slowing down the development for making fpga based spare parts replacements for original PCBs. I think that should be a commercial service and it would bump up the developer's time maybe upto a full year for a core like CPS1.



Edit: If you want to test his cores when its out on beta, you can join Jotego's discord you can test and give him feedback if you want - you seen to be very knowledgeable and he got what you meant - what I understood from your conversation. Ofcourse all depends if you interested and have some time. If you want, I can send you the invite code.

Thanks again.
 
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A little progress, this stuff is def not plug & play - and some senior members of the team have a bit of a bad attitude imho. Anyho, for those playing along at home - these scripts helped a lot:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Updater_script_MiSTer
https://github.com/RetroDriven/MiSTerMAME

LAN connection highly recommended when messing with this stuff, I also found that having a logitech keyboard that can switch between PC and fpga board was most helpful. I ssh into the fpga board.

/root/fat/Scripts has a a few nice scripts, e.g. ini_settings.sh which does it graphically.

The main menu didn't work properly with my hdmi->vga dongle, but the cores did, so that was a little confusing. Got a second one, and now the main menu actually works.

@suverman - I can only get jotegos and the unofficial cores to work. The official ones mostly just boot to a black screen, video is "working" and I can bring up the menu. It's exact same behavior as when I had no roms installed. The whole _arcade, arcade, with mra files etc leaves me a little confused..
 
@invzim - regarding the 8bit and 6bit video output from an I/O board or out of the HDMI.. do you see 8bit from the HDMI output? Or 6bit?
 
invzim said:
@suverman - I can only get jotegos and the unofficial cores to work. The official ones mostly just boot to a black screen, video is "working" and I can bring up the menu. It's exact same behavior as when I had no roms installed. The whole _arcade, arcade, with mra files etc leaves me a little confused..
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Get Bruno's pack just extract it (just like we used to do for the multis and SM packs), easy. mra's have been rolled out in January and a lot of unofficial mras have made it confusing. All arcade cores work for me.

Direct video might be not plug and play its still an experimental feature. Also you are right MiSTer is not plug and play at the moment and till the framework settles down it will not be.

I am aware the senior members are a bit stressed, specially Alexei (this is a not a commercial product and devs are busy with real life and porting cores / improving stuff and they dont have time to really help out users with regular stuff individually) and its better you ask the community instead of them directly. Facebook MiSTer group is a great place where people help others, we have same questions every other day from new users and within a day they get it resolved up and running. Or the MiSTer discord channel.

Edit: LAN connection is not needed. I use this https://www.amazon.com/Edimax-EW-7811UN-Wireless-150M-Adapter/
Any dongle with same chipset is plug and play. Setting up wifi is opening up a file and editing the SSID and password: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki/WiFi-setup

Also regarding arcade cores check your sd card follows this structure :

root/_arcade <- mra files go in here
root/_arcade/cores <-rbf files go in here
root/_arcade/MAME <-MAME merged set roms go in here
root/_arcade/HBMAME <-HBMAME merged set roms go in here
 
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Ok, so the mra files are basically 'launch definitions' - from the scripts above I don't think there are mra files for the official cores. The mra subsystem exctracts and prepares the rom files on the fly?

I presume that the launch last core at boot does not support MRA files yet. Ideally I would like to have it launch straight into the last game.

suverman said:
Get Bruno's pack just extract it (just like we used to do for the multis and SM packs), easy.
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Got a link?

Also, do you know if there is a way to remap F12 globally? Having it on TAB, same as mame, would be very handy :)
 
invzim said:
Ok, so the mra files are basically 'launch definitions' - from the scripts above I don't think there are mra files for the official cores. The mra subsystem exctracts and prepares the rom files on the fly?
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mra files basically defines the roms, dip switches, today cheat option (again consider it alpha) was added. Few cores allow vertical and horizontal shifting on the CRT (Green Beret)- devs are adding more and more stuff depending on the requirements. If you see any official arcade cores, in the release folders you will see the official mras. Example the bagman hardware: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Arcade-Bagman_MiSTer/tree/master/releases


Also another thing about the updator script - its maintained by locustus - allowed on the official mister git but its kinda voluntary work and according to sorg not a priority. So expect the updator to lag after a major fundamental change - introduction of mra standard for arcade cores took over a week for the updater script to be itself updated to work correctly. In such situations if you are in a hurry, you will need to read the github and manually update. Again its just because major changes are occurring now which in future will make it much easier to maintain and add features.


invzim said:
Got a link?
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/eubrunosilvapt
Please remember these are official+unofficial, Bruno adds mras for HBMAME and variations of roms which the original devs dont bother adding. Again if you have any issues ask us. Example would be Jotego when he releases the cps1 core he will only test the official games and create only those few mras, the bootlegs like koryu, Rainbow etc would most probably be added by someone in the community other than jotego like Bruno.

P.S looks like last update was 16 Jan, the rate at which the updates are coming there is a small chance a few of these might not work. I will share my _arcade folder here as a gdrive link, that will be all you need updated as of today. Update your mister using the script, delete your _arcade folder and then extract the below zip on the root of the folder.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HRdJun4O6eWPf124EyQ38lsC5yfsEzu-

invzim said:
Also, do you know if there is a way to remap F12 globally? Having it on TAB, same as mame, would be very handy :)
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Convenient if using J-PAC and all:
1. Main menu press F12
2. Click Remap Keyboard
3. Click "Tab" button on "Press any key to remap" screen
4. Click "F12" button on the next screen
5. Click enter to finish.

That worked for me just now.
invzim said:
I presume that the launch last core at boot does not support MRA files yet. Ideally I would like to have it launch straight into the last game.
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You are right I think about mra not launching, I shall ask in the official forum. According to Sorg it will never boot directly to a game before displaying menu atleast for some time, however he has in the past said a lot of things he was against, yet added them eventually, so it might happen in future - but at this time its not a priority afaik.
 
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Thanks for the zip, the arcade stuff magically worked :)

I think the remap stuff is a little tricky, as it seems to store remaps on a per-device basis using USB VID/PID, and as a binary file to boot - so a little tricky to remap away from something that is not present on input device (like F12). For the JVS-PAC 2, I may have to make 'mister' mode.
 
invzim said:
I think the remap stuff is a little tricky, as it seems to store remaps on a per-device basis using USB VID/PID, and as a binary file to boot - so a little tricky to remap away from something that is not present on input device (like F12). For the JVS-PAC 2, I may have to make 'mister' mode.
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You are right, thats a major quirk. There are a few annoying things like that at the moment. Gradually these should be ironed out hopefully.
 
+1 for sharing the arcade files. Mine have been messed up for a while with all the changes the devs been making, so it was super-cool to get all of them working again. :thumbsup:
 
ShootTheCore said:
The author of the SNES emulator BSNES, byuu, wrote an excellent article that compares software emulators to FPGAs. His comparison is written against the Analogue Super NT FPGA console, but it applies equally to the MiSTer and its FPGA cores. Highly recommended reading for anyone that's comparing original hardware vs emulator vs FPGA.


https://byuu.org/articles/fpgas-arent-magic
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This isn't a dig at your post (so please don't take it that way) but more an update on some things. Many of the "cons" byuu has listed are now addressed/solved on MiSTer:

If we go through Byuu's cons on FPGA based emulation:


  • it costs $190; about five times what a real SNES goes for
1. you get more than just a SNES :), neogeo anyone? Byuu was comparing to Super nt so he does have a good point in his post. It just doesn't really apply to MiSTer.

it runs at 60hz instead of the proper 60.09hz of a real SNES
  • it can run at 60.09hz, but only with either frame-dropping or tearing
2. not the case with MiSTer (it is the case with Super Nt so he is correct there as tha'ts what he is comparing)
  • no support for video filters, save states, real-time rewind, netplay, etc
3. not the case with MiSTer, some of the filters are crazy nice looking! GBA core has rewind! (GBA is the exception but shows it is possible).
  • playing homebrew, hacks, translations, MSU1 games, etc requires an expensive flash cartridge
4. not the case with MiSTer, also MSU1 is now implemented. True for Super nt.
  • cannot be used as a debugger for homebrew, ROM hacks, speedruns, etc
5. no my area of expertise so can't comment on debugging. However there are now speed runners on MiSTer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU-ICtBxMvs
  • if one has a PC: this takes up additional space, a power outlet, and an HDMI port"
6. not really a valid argument IMO, unless your PC is a laptop, needing a power outlet and a HDMI port isn't a big deal. Just look at the other lengths we will go to, many of us here get original hardware and pay a lot for darksoft hardware :) You also need a pretty fast CPU / expensive PC to run Higan if you're going for accuracy.

Now of course MiSTer isn't without faults. It's still under heavy development and accuracy is still also a WIP for most cores.


Also seriously looking forward to the CPS1 core! jotego is flying on this one, has 3 layerd backgrounds and sprite progress! Cadillacs and dinosaurs anyone? https://twitter.com/topapate/status/1221777040782897153
 
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That's a good summary, and it also demonstrates how much MiSTer has evolved since February 2018 when Byuu wrote that article. Back then, the MiSTer didn't have a SNES, GBA, or Neo Geo core, so the Analogue FPGA consoles were a big deal. Now, MiSTer has stolen most of the FPGA thunder from Analogue, although the new Pocket they're working on definitely looks cool. Byuu's article doesn't age well if you're directly comparing feature bullet-points.

That said, the main point of Byuu's article that does hold up over time (and the reason I recommend MiSTer enthusiasts read it) is his technical explanations for how both emulators and FPGAs are written in high-level languages, and as such both emulators and FPGA cores are often only approximate recreations of the original hardware. FPGA isn't a magic bullet and FPGA does not guarantee a 100% match with the original hardware. I also agree with his argument that software emulation can equal FPGA implementations in all ways except possibly operating system imposed latency and utilization of computing resources.

Now I own a MiSTer, and I think it's cool, and I do think the games "feel" better on it than on emulators. But it still won't replace my original equipment anytime soon for the same reason I've never fully embraced emulation - the FPGA cores have flaws. Every time I spend a few hours with the MiSTer, I pick up on various flaws. Now, the bugs I've reported have been addressed quickly, and most of the cores are well-polished, but if you're OCD like me then those little differences (and knowing that they exist) will drive you batty. Many of the same bugs exist in both emulators and the FPGA cores, which to me reinforces the theory that the implementations aren't really all that different.

I say this not to pick on the MiSTer, or praise it, but just stating that it is what it is. It's a good (but not perfect) approximation of original hardware, and it's improving all the time. Don't set your expectations too high - or too low. It's WAY better than a Raspberry Pi or one of those licensed mini-consoles!

Boy, I wish I was one of those people that could be completely satisfied with emulation & FPGA though - I'd have a lot less equipment and a lot more money! :P Maybe one day.... Imagine where the MiSTer will be two years from now.
 
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I think there is a myth which needs to be cleared out. MiSTer devs are NOT looking to do 100% accurate simulation and unless the specific platform has some sort of a community back for that it will never happen. Even with cycle accuracy you can have hardware not behaving the same way as original since devs would exploit undocumented features that might have been left out on the FPGA implementation. Also for most devs, the cost of making a 95% accurate core would be a lot less than doing a 98% core and 100% will never be achievable using abstraction.

So no FPGA core is going to replace the upcoming Darksoft CPS1 multi running on your original hardware.

MiSTer / any other FPGA emulator will be more accurate than software softwares in generally because it will simulate interrupts / watchdogs more carefully and runs on bare metal, but a lot of cores are modelled using information provided graciously by Byuu etc, so if the documentation is not complete, it will not be implemented in FPGA either.

MiSTer is only good if you care about original resolution, refresh rates and lack of emulator input lag and lack of missing inputs - which for me makes about 90% of my gaming experience (personally).


Also buying MiSTer hardware does not help the FPGA devs or the project directly, so really I dont see why people need to be persuaded to get into the product. Though, I thank SM for that, I love my MiSTer :D

Having said that MiSTer, Analogue and Terraonion's MegaSD are very similar products - all FPGA emulators (MegaSD used VDP from the MiSTer dev srg320 and was acknowledged publicly).
 
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ShootTheCore said:
Now I own a MiSTer, and I think it's cool, and I do think the games "feel" better on it than on emulators. But it still won't replace my original equipment anytime soon for the same reason I've never fully embraced emulation - the FPGA cores have flaws. Every time I spend a few hours with the MiSTer, I pick up on various flaws. Now, the bugs I've reported have been addressed quickly, and most of the cores are well-polished, but if you're OCD like me then those little differences (and knowing that they exist) will drive you batty. Many of the same bugs exist in both emulators and the FPGA cores, which to me reinforces the theory that the implementations aren't really all that different.<br style="background-color: rgb(252, 253, 254);">
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Don't forget that Mister is in early development and emulators are out there since decades. Who learn alot FPGA know that it's totaly possible to implement a full 100% clone, but get some time, and most of cores are made by few guys (jotego work alone i think), and i didn't mention how hard reverse engineering is. So, i believe that Mister (even if it change the development kit), will accomplish the preservation that our beloved games deserves.
 
"get some time, and most of cores are made by few guys (jotego work alone i think), and i didn't mention how hard reverse engineering is." I agree here, we need a team equal or bigger than MAME dev and working around the clock to port all the arcade cores:)..

"So no FPGA core is going to replace the upcoming Darksoft CPS1 multi running on your original hardware." Technically NO but "feelings" not sure here...my biggest thing with all the multi's when I had them, specifically CPS2, I felt as if they were Emulation in the sense that, I had all the games in one cart and could change games at any time. I got the same feeling with the NES Ever drives and purchased over 300 NES game carts..Maybe because the NES and the CPS2 system are so close to my black dead heart..that is why I went back and purchased all but one of my fighting CPS2 games and the NES carts...with FPGA, GroovyMAME and Raspberry pie 4, I get the same feeling as if it was a multi. But, game on whatever makes you happy and don't brake the bank. Every time that I see the going price of KI1&2 and MKII, I cry a little and can not justify the going prices.
 
suverman said:
I think there is a myth which needs to be cleared out. MiSTer devs are NOT looking to do 100% accurate simulation and unless the specific platform has some sort of a community back for that it will never happen.
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well that counts me out then. I don’t see the point of not striving for 100% accuracy. There are plenty of current solutions that are available now for cheaper, that are not 100% accurate. So why would I hold out for a MiSTer again?
 
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