- Thread starter doccaz
- Start date
Tonybolony
Professional
No you dont need to remove the Nand you just need the correct software, the correct missing software components (which are no longer available) and Brizzos programable dongle (no longer available) and it can all be done with a few clicks, but the problem is key components are no longer available , so its if you dont have them already , chances are you out of look, and yes its possible , i have made several of my own for different 246 units , i made myself a Fates Unlimited codes dongle for a 246 i had spare and HDD
Well sadly it's not that easy or I got a new-er PS2 Memory Card... but here's a side by side comparrison, I think the top was Soul Calibur 2, and the bottom was a PS2 (Original Sony Yellow Clam Shell) Boxed NOS Card.
My guess is that Brizzo found out which lanes on the chips are basic IO/Write Enable pins, and then used a simple USB-> SPI or something micro controller, soldered it on, and was able to facilitate the communication, but that's somewhat based on the fact that you have to install FTDI (Future Technology Device Interface) .DLL which allows you to have a basic USB interface... and even if you could do that, there's no guarantee you'd use the right hardware or firmware to make his programs work...
Another plausible thing is that sony encased the chip (Bottom Pic) in plastic, as it's the thing that's vulnerable to hacking which could be the IO part... But again that's just my amateur assessment.
My guess is that Brizzo found out which lanes on the chips are basic IO/Write Enable pins, and then used a simple USB-> SPI or something micro controller, soldered it on, and was able to facilitate the communication, but that's somewhat based on the fact that you have to install FTDI (Future Technology Device Interface) .DLL which allows you to have a basic USB interface... and even if you could do that, there's no guarantee you'd use the right hardware or firmware to make his programs work...
Another plausible thing is that sony encased the chip (Bottom Pic) in plastic, as it's the thing that's vulnerable to hacking which could be the IO part... But again that's just my amateur assessment.
Last edited:
Yes, that is more or less my plan as well. I got ahold of all the software and a couple of the PS3 USB readers + original Namco dongles (they're still in the mail though). I also own a working SYS2X6 dongle and 2x System 256 boards to test on. Haven't had much time lately to mess with it, but it should be a fun exploit.
With Brizzo having gone AFK, and I've been busy on other things recently, but not.. gone.. just VERY slow to reply, and hesitant to post lots of info which will benefit FOR PROFIT CLONERS, and NOT those doing this as a hobby, I'll answer some questions:
mymc.py is your tool of choice for poking around a ps2 card that has been dumped as an full NAND .bin file.
you can also do this "Live" using a real PS2 + uLE (uLanunchELF) with the 2x6 NAND resoldered to a PS2 card, just make sure not to insert it until you are already in uLE or the PS2 dashbaord "OS" will load some crap onto it, thus making the dump "unclean" (but it will still work)
the PS3 memory adapter is a bit of a harder topic to discuss because it involves software that violates the DMCA.
See above.
Brizzo's card doesn't "dump" so not exactly, and yes, there is no difference from above.
Brizzo's card is best seen as:
2X6 Motherboard ] = [ (Sony 2X6 MagicGate Chip) + (Custom IC + NAND)] = [ USB to PC
A stock memory card or dongle looks like this:
2X6 Motherboard ] = [ (Sony 2X6 MagicGate Chip) + ( NAND)]
The Custom memory controller Brizzo's created, in conjunction with the software he provides, allows one to directly access the NAND WITHOUT going through the Sony MagicGate chip, thus allowing "sideloading" without bypassing any kind of DRM or encryption.
BUT it only allows access to the entirety of the NAND, and any modifications to the exact contents of the files on a card must still be done through mymc.py
As MOST users are using this just to "play games", this is sufficient.
One might ask, "if putting a game onto a card is as simple as copying the data onto the NAND chip with an EEPROM programmer, a PS2, or the PS3 adapter and soldering it to a 2X6 dongle, why can't I just do that and why do I need Brizzo's dongle?"
But let it be known that this method has been used as far back as the first batch of 246 dumps Guru originally uploaded to MAME, as a number are easily identifiable as this specific method of BOOTLEGGERY (?probably? not by him, but likely by whomever he purchased the dongles from), and that he'd discovered this method (or had been told it by said bootleggers) before some of chanced upon it a number of years back.
If you're curious to try and understand this method, simply find TWO dumps of say... a Gundam game, and and extract the files with mymc.py, then compare the files in a hex editor. It's rather self explanatory for the technically inclined.
This is the method by which Brizzo's dongle allows one dump to run on a completely different dongle.
For the less technically inclined, and those who don't want to desolder a bunch of nand chips (speaking, of, does anyone have a hotplate handy that can help me resolder the NAND chips on 200+ dongles?), there is a MUCH easier solution, the one MOST people are discussing when they talk about the Playstation 3 adapter.
This method is also MUCH MORE ILLEGAL based on DMCA and other things so I will only discuss HOW this solution works, but if someone else wants to discuss the tools, their operation, etc, that's on them.
The PS3MCA (Playstation 3 Memory card adapter) is a dumb device, and contains NO MagicGate decrytion on its own.
Instead, the PS3 implemented PS2 compatible MG routines IN SOFTWARE
You read that right-the routines for pretending to be a host PS2 are completely in the PS3 OS.
Now, as the PS3 got hacked.. MANY moons ago, access to this became pretty accessible.
As a result, someone (I'm forgetting, but it's in the sources to the PS3MCA application) put together an application to access the card from a pc.
Shortly after if got posted publicly as the easy way to use this menthod to make a FMCB (FreeMemoryCardBoot) memorycard without a modded PS2, every publicly posted version of the sourcecode was pulled from online due to DMCA violations. Of course, being the internet, it's still very much out there.
This tool allows one to directly manipulate files on a PS2 Memory card in a similar manner as mymc.py, where the files are being modified in-system, but not as a "whole chip dump".
This is, and has been for many years, public knowledge, so nothing new here.
If you wanted to use the original version of PS3MCA, you would need to desolder the NAND from your 2x6 dongle, solder it to a PS2 memory card, and then do your edits with PS3MCA, before then resoldering it back to the 2x6 dongle. You will also need to use the method mentioned above for modifying the files to work on a different dongle than they originated from.
Moving forwards in time, somewhat recently (in the grand scheme of things, but still a few years old at this point), the encryption keys and other bits necessary to communicate with the MG chips in a COH dongle were obtained. I personally forget if this was a leak, disassembled debug hardware code, or a decapping of magicgate chips, but the end result is the same.
PS3MCA was forked to contain this new code, resulting in a version that can FULLY directly modify COH dongles (Python, 2x6, etc.)
Now, if all you want to do is just play a game that you have a .bin dump of, you will still need a few additional steps.
You'll need to extract all the files from the .bin using mymc.py
You'll then need to access the COH dongle with the special version of PS3MCA and upload all those files
You'll then need to sign the boot file so that it is actually bootable.
Because I'm not a lawyer, I'm not the one to speak to in regards to obtaining a copy of this version of the software, or advocating its usage, I'm simply acknowledging that it exists, because it is part of our collective current NON-INVASIVE methods for dumping new games, and that undoubtedly (if not already) someone will eventually make it public.
I personally have had some functional prototypes of dongle replacements for years that could bridge the gap "on the cheap" for people who'd rather have a proper dedicated solution (Like Brizzo's) than to use the legally questionable PS3MCA fork.
But I don't know if people are interested in this, or if the community is more interested in goign the PS3MCA route (which arguable is frought with still somewhat expensive-ish hardware too).
My personal stance on all this has been to try and minimize the impact everything done to preserve and maintain the platform has, specifically to limit things like the predatory Taiko bootleg market, or other bootleg sellers making large profits off "industrial waste" PCBs that have been sent to China and elsewhere for "recycling".
This is also partly why I haven't been very forthcoming on how to modify dongles, etc, although I'd love to spell it out in great detail, but the more info out there, the more Soul Calibur 3 bootlegs you're going to see for sale out there... that's the downside of this hobby.
Feel free to let me know what you think as well. I'm ... . . . around, even if i don't reply much.
100%, this is actually how I started with dumping and modifying dongles years ago, except I used an EEPROM programmer and/or a PS2 + uLE to access the dongles depending on my needs)
mymc.py is your tool of choice for poking around a ps2 card that has been dumped as an full NAND .bin file.
you can also do this "Live" using a real PS2 + uLE (uLanunchELF) with the 2x6 NAND resoldered to a PS2 card, just make sure not to insert it until you are already in uLE or the PS2 dashbaord "OS" will load some crap onto it, thus making the dump "unclean" (but it will still work)
the PS3 memory adapter is a bit of a harder topic to discuss because it involves software that violates the DMCA.
See above.
Brizzo's card doesn't "dump" so not exactly, and yes, there is no difference from above.
Brizzo's card is best seen as:
2X6 Motherboard ] = [ (Sony 2X6 MagicGate Chip) + (Custom IC + NAND)] = [ USB to PC
A stock memory card or dongle looks like this:
2X6 Motherboard ] = [ (Sony 2X6 MagicGate Chip) + ( NAND)]
The Custom memory controller Brizzo's created, in conjunction with the software he provides, allows one to directly access the NAND WITHOUT going through the Sony MagicGate chip, thus allowing "sideloading" without bypassing any kind of DRM or encryption.
BUT it only allows access to the entirety of the NAND, and any modifications to the exact contents of the files on a card must still be done through mymc.py
As MOST users are using this just to "play games", this is sufficient.
One might ask, "if putting a game onto a card is as simple as copying the data onto the NAND chip with an EEPROM programmer, a PS2, or the PS3 adapter and soldering it to a 2X6 dongle, why can't I just do that and why do I need Brizzo's dongle?"
- The answer to this is..
- if all you want to do is play EXISTING games, you ALMOST CAN.
- the more detailed answer is that every MG chip contains a bunch of encryption routines and all that that prevent this from working (SONY realized that any old Arcade OP probably had access to a friend with a EEPROM programmer and would try this), so you can't do it.
- the EVEN more detailed answer is that because Sony again failed at encryption, you can, but it requires some prep-work and a small change to every "dump" you want to write.
But let it be known that this method has been used as far back as the first batch of 246 dumps Guru originally uploaded to MAME, as a number are easily identifiable as this specific method of BOOTLEGGERY (?probably? not by him, but likely by whomever he purchased the dongles from), and that he'd discovered this method (or had been told it by said bootleggers) before some of chanced upon it a number of years back.
If you're curious to try and understand this method, simply find TWO dumps of say... a Gundam game, and and extract the files with mymc.py, then compare the files in a hex editor. It's rather self explanatory for the technically inclined.
This is the method by which Brizzo's dongle allows one dump to run on a completely different dongle.
For the less technically inclined, and those who don't want to desolder a bunch of nand chips (speaking, of, does anyone have a hotplate handy that can help me resolder the NAND chips on 200+ dongles?), there is a MUCH easier solution, the one MOST people are discussing when they talk about the Playstation 3 adapter.
This method is also MUCH MORE ILLEGAL based on DMCA and other things so I will only discuss HOW this solution works, but if someone else wants to discuss the tools, their operation, etc, that's on them.
The PS3MCA (Playstation 3 Memory card adapter) is a dumb device, and contains NO MagicGate decrytion on its own.
Instead, the PS3 implemented PS2 compatible MG routines IN SOFTWARE
You read that right-the routines for pretending to be a host PS2 are completely in the PS3 OS.
Now, as the PS3 got hacked.. MANY moons ago, access to this became pretty accessible.
As a result, someone (I'm forgetting, but it's in the sources to the PS3MCA application) put together an application to access the card from a pc.
Shortly after if got posted publicly as the easy way to use this menthod to make a FMCB (FreeMemoryCardBoot) memorycard without a modded PS2, every publicly posted version of the sourcecode was pulled from online due to DMCA violations. Of course, being the internet, it's still very much out there.
This tool allows one to directly manipulate files on a PS2 Memory card in a similar manner as mymc.py, where the files are being modified in-system, but not as a "whole chip dump".
This is, and has been for many years, public knowledge, so nothing new here.
If you wanted to use the original version of PS3MCA, you would need to desolder the NAND from your 2x6 dongle, solder it to a PS2 memory card, and then do your edits with PS3MCA, before then resoldering it back to the 2x6 dongle. You will also need to use the method mentioned above for modifying the files to work on a different dongle than they originated from.
Moving forwards in time, somewhat recently (in the grand scheme of things, but still a few years old at this point), the encryption keys and other bits necessary to communicate with the MG chips in a COH dongle were obtained. I personally forget if this was a leak, disassembled debug hardware code, or a decapping of magicgate chips, but the end result is the same.
PS3MCA was forked to contain this new code, resulting in a version that can FULLY directly modify COH dongles (Python, 2x6, etc.)
Now, if all you want to do is just play a game that you have a .bin dump of, you will still need a few additional steps.
You'll need to extract all the files from the .bin using mymc.py
You'll then need to access the COH dongle with the special version of PS3MCA and upload all those files
You'll then need to sign the boot file so that it is actually bootable.
Because I'm not a lawyer, I'm not the one to speak to in regards to obtaining a copy of this version of the software, or advocating its usage, I'm simply acknowledging that it exists, because it is part of our collective current NON-INVASIVE methods for dumping new games, and that undoubtedly (if not already) someone will eventually make it public.
I personally have had some functional prototypes of dongle replacements for years that could bridge the gap "on the cheap" for people who'd rather have a proper dedicated solution (Like Brizzo's) than to use the legally questionable PS3MCA fork.
But I don't know if people are interested in this, or if the community is more interested in goign the PS3MCA route (which arguable is frought with still somewhat expensive-ish hardware too).
My personal stance on all this has been to try and minimize the impact everything done to preserve and maintain the platform has, specifically to limit things like the predatory Taiko bootleg market, or other bootleg sellers making large profits off "industrial waste" PCBs that have been sent to China and elsewhere for "recycling".
This is also partly why I haven't been very forthcoming on how to modify dongles, etc, although I'd love to spell it out in great detail, but the more info out there, the more Soul Calibur 3 bootlegs you're going to see for sale out there... that's the downside of this hobby.
Feel free to let me know what you think as well. I'm ... . . . around, even if i don't reply much.
Last edited:
andymage, I don't think you need to delete your comments, I think you raise some good points that my statements may have painted a poor picture of the realities, and for this I apologize personally.
I did not mean by any stroke of the imagination that I felt everyone from China was a bootlegger, simply that from external appearances, when the 2X6 prices from Japan dropped to rock bottom a few years ago, there was a sudden appearance of a larger number of Bootleg games hitting the market specifically from sellers that are located there selling definitively bootleg games both on Ebay (to a non-domestic market), and on Aliexpress.
I also do not believe at all that games coming from China are all bootlegs either, as a number of fully unmodified good games in my collection I've bought from vendors there, and I am entirely thankful that we live in an era where global accessibility is not impossible anymore.
My commentary was more about the state of bootlegs in general.
You're entirely right, and this is part of my argument, outside of Taiko games, there's little to no interest in bootlegging games for actual (for profit) arcade use, whether that be in China, OR the rest of the world, but rather there's a small but avid interest for some in the HOBBY.
The problem is that since 2009 or earlier, there has been at least SOME bootlegging happening, and if there is concern over devaluing legitimate collections by making access to bootlegs easier for those SPECIFICALLY looking to make a large profit (and I mean this earnestly, ANYWHERE in the world), who in many cases have access to the means and knowhow do do it with an arguably large return on their investment, while creating a product that is overpriced (in many cases being sold above street value), and without intrinsic collector's value for the long run.
As long as collectors/gamers continue to buy from these merchants, there is an inherent cause to worry that any further discussions/documentation COULD help make their business easier.
This all said, I am personally one who believes that the information should be shared so as to IDEALLY get people more interested in doing it themselves, doing it for the prices things actually cost, and doing it for the enjoyment of the games, and not as a business plan.
It is quite a shame that Brizzo has disappeared, having had many conversations with him in the past, and I hope he's doing okay personally.
But I understand that there's many out there with hardware, games, or both, looking to enjoy the hobby still, and things do need to move forwards.
Let's just remember that there will always be people out there looking both to exploit a market they can make a profit off of. While capitalism is all well and good, if it's detrimental fundamentally to the hobby, we should probably try to find a way to minimize the impact it might have on the hobby.
At the end of the day, I didn't write the software being discussed, and I'm in no position to be the one to release it, but if the person who is were to, clearly that would change many of the discussions we're having here and now, because the "cat would be out of the bag" as they say, and we could discuss how to use the tools, and how things actually work.
As it is, the information's been in the wild for quite a long time, if you know where to look, but it's just never been promoted directly to the Arcade game audience, and this is what would make all the difference in the world.
I did not mean by any stroke of the imagination that I felt everyone from China was a bootlegger, simply that from external appearances, when the 2X6 prices from Japan dropped to rock bottom a few years ago, there was a sudden appearance of a larger number of Bootleg games hitting the market specifically from sellers that are located there selling definitively bootleg games both on Ebay (to a non-domestic market), and on Aliexpress.
I also do not believe at all that games coming from China are all bootlegs either, as a number of fully unmodified good games in my collection I've bought from vendors there, and I am entirely thankful that we live in an era where global accessibility is not impossible anymore.
My commentary was more about the state of bootlegs in general.
You're entirely right, and this is part of my argument, outside of Taiko games, there's little to no interest in bootlegging games for actual (for profit) arcade use, whether that be in China, OR the rest of the world, but rather there's a small but avid interest for some in the HOBBY.
The problem is that since 2009 or earlier, there has been at least SOME bootlegging happening, and if there is concern over devaluing legitimate collections by making access to bootlegs easier for those SPECIFICALLY looking to make a large profit (and I mean this earnestly, ANYWHERE in the world), who in many cases have access to the means and knowhow do do it with an arguably large return on their investment, while creating a product that is overpriced (in many cases being sold above street value), and without intrinsic collector's value for the long run.
As long as collectors/gamers continue to buy from these merchants, there is an inherent cause to worry that any further discussions/documentation COULD help make their business easier.
This all said, I am personally one who believes that the information should be shared so as to IDEALLY get people more interested in doing it themselves, doing it for the prices things actually cost, and doing it for the enjoyment of the games, and not as a business plan.
It is quite a shame that Brizzo has disappeared, having had many conversations with him in the past, and I hope he's doing okay personally.
But I understand that there's many out there with hardware, games, or both, looking to enjoy the hobby still, and things do need to move forwards.
Let's just remember that there will always be people out there looking both to exploit a market they can make a profit off of. While capitalism is all well and good, if it's detrimental fundamentally to the hobby, we should probably try to find a way to minimize the impact it might have on the hobby.
At the end of the day, I didn't write the software being discussed, and I'm in no position to be the one to release it, but if the person who is were to, clearly that would change many of the discussions we're having here and now, because the "cat would be out of the bag" as they say, and we could discuss how to use the tools, and how things actually work.
As it is, the information's been in the wild for quite a long time, if you know where to look, but it's just never been promoted directly to the Arcade game audience, and this is what would make all the difference in the world.
@defor thank you for shedding some light on my suspicions especially on how brizzo's dongle works. It is a shame he's departed, I wish him the best and hope he returns to the scene, when ready.
I share your sentiment, and have veered away from a bootleg SC3 Copy, and instead opted to get an authentic copy from YahooAuctions at somewhat more than the 246 with the bootleg was being sold as, but I figured why do I want another 246, with a non-genuine copy, when I can have the real deal for roughly the same cash, and not have to worry about what to do with the excess 246...
That being said there has to be something "Different" about SC3 as those I've seen bootlegs of, other MagicGate Cards not so much. Either that or they're more valuable hence a bigger lure to copy while others may not be worth the effort.
Either way I have a significant collection of Cart/DVD/HDD's at this point, I'd love to check out things like Taiko no Tatsujin just to see if I can make my son's drums for switch work through a USB-JVS adapter
But I digress, thank you again @defor for taking the time to make some of this a bit clear-er
I share your sentiment, and have veered away from a bootleg SC3 Copy, and instead opted to get an authentic copy from YahooAuctions at somewhat more than the 246 with the bootleg was being sold as, but I figured why do I want another 246, with a non-genuine copy, when I can have the real deal for roughly the same cash, and not have to worry about what to do with the excess 246...
That being said there has to be something "Different" about SC3 as those I've seen bootlegs of, other MagicGate Cards not so much. Either that or they're more valuable hence a bigger lure to copy while others may not be worth the effort.
Either way I have a significant collection of Cart/DVD/HDD's at this point, I'd love to check out things like Taiko no Tatsujin just to see if I can make my son's drums for switch work through a USB-JVS adapter
But I digress, thank you again @defor for taking the time to make some of this a bit clear-er
There are only really two games that seem to hold much value outside of Japan, Tekken DR, and SC3. A lot of this is because they're easy to get running overall, but also because they were pretty high-profile games int he first place overseas...
Taiko has a distinct value to it in music circles, but because of the need to have a specific hardware setup, just like gun and racing games, its not as popular a target.
Because the gundam games were SO overly produced (each setup had AT least 4 systems connected, and most arcades had many such setups), their value is practically as cheap as you can get.
The only other remaining exception seems to be IdolMaster, as ANYTHING for that game sells for a lot, but the parts you need to get it working make just about every other game look simple by comparison (touchscreen, card reader/printer, mandatory entire second "tower"/server unit, buttons, and camera)... so there's a high price, but VERY low actual demand.
Also I have it on good authority that @brizzo is around and in the future will likely be making some more dongles...
Taiko has a distinct value to it in music circles, but because of the need to have a specific hardware setup, just like gun and racing games, its not as popular a target.
Because the gundam games were SO overly produced (each setup had AT least 4 systems connected, and most arcades had many such setups), their value is practically as cheap as you can get.
The only other remaining exception seems to be IdolMaster, as ANYTHING for that game sells for a lot, but the parts you need to get it working make just about every other game look simple by comparison (touchscreen, card reader/printer, mandatory entire second "tower"/server unit, buttons, and camera)... so there's a high price, but VERY low actual demand.
Also I have it on good authority that @brizzo is around and in the future will likely be making some more dongles...
That's great to hear! In both respects, that he's still lurking around, and that there's a possibility for his products to make a resurgence.
kinooshi823
Professional
I hope in the future I can get my hands on a 2x6 multi, that would be sweet
lorizzuoso
Student
And to further prove defor's point because of this tool being released in the web people like @Tonybolony can sell bootlegs like this one : https://www.ebay.com/itm/1860351977..._imlaqjsx-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
So people be aware! Some users can sell bootlegs and make you pay a lot of money for this! If you have the tool and you convert games as a personal hobby it's fine but DON'T sell converted dongles/games as legitimate products!
UnlimitedGregg
Beginner
Funny everyone talking about SC3, I had no idea that game is a hot topic. Im looking into this for the sole reason of flashing a Japanese SC3 dongle to an english one. (and of course the knowledge to continue preserving games into the future).
kinooshi823
Professional
That guy is also selling Tekken 6.0 for 357c. People are saying that is a big deal since it is supposedly coveted in the 357 community.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1860846924...-836d-cef2ba8287a7|iid:1|vlpname:vlp_homepage
Man I hate bootleggers, I've been trying to compile ps3mca tool , but for some reason I can't but I know what to change but cause of bootleggers I can't enjoy my hobby no more and psx-scene is gone and due to bad organization I can't find my copy from years ago I compile my self with the help of lazybastard. So I now cannot redo a dongle my 7yr old destroyed. Thanks bootleggers.
Attachments
I found this one almost by accident: https://github.com/elepro/Anthony
It appears to be the entire ps3mca tool with the retail keyset and a new GUI for Windows, and it's being actively maintained (see the "AntonyPS2" directory).
It appears to be the entire ps3mca tool with the retail keyset and a new GUI for Windows, and it's being actively maintained (see the "AntonyPS2" directory).
https://github.com/resekf/2x6donglemerge
https://github.com/XyLe-GBP/mca-coh-gui
I think these 2 should also work。
https://github.com/XyLe-GBP/mca-coh-gui
I think these 2 should also work。
i tried swapping the keys and card auth in that anthony program and it don't read a dongle, and https://github.com/XyLe-GBP/mca-coh-gui needs to have ps3mca-tool(coh keys) to work and when changing the keys and card auth in ps3mca-tool it dont read a dongle
