Crisis Zone + 246 games IR led replacement tests - Work in progress

[Franco23444]

Update 07/23/2021: I have been trying to search for some new IR leds and ready made IR led emitter circuits. I managed to find IR leds that look very similar to the original IR leds Namco used (they were a little expensive). The new circuit I found seemed promising as it had the pin outs I needed. I did receive it and tested it but I was disappointed. It was the exact same thing as the original one I am currently using. The IR led was much brighter than the original pcb. Since these pcbs use cheap IR leds, I swapped it out with the one I mentioned above. Had to do a bit of modifications to the pcb but I am somewhat pleased. I will have to make my own custom Gun sensor board, the LED is still not bright enough. Luckily, I do have a complete Crisis Zone arcade gun and I will model the new IR sensor after this board.

 

[rolins]

If anyone is interested, I will start doing a limited run of reproduction IR guns. Just DM me if you’re interested. Will probably take some time to make as I’m still in the testing stage. By far the easiest way to play the arcade version of Crisis Zone, Time Crisis 3, and Vampire Night at home with any display as long as you have a compatible I/O board (Rays or V221 MIU with the correct program eeprom) and CCD camera.

Cool. Yea, put me down for two. I got an original Vampire Night and Crisis Zone chassis on the shelves with no way to play them.

 

[tiff_lee]

I'd have to double check but i'm pretty sure the recoil distance on the NAMED guns is actually reduced from that of a genuine NAMCO one, like the slide doesn't physically go back as far.

I did open them up side by side ages ago, can't remember if the restriction was in the plastic housing or part of the metal slide attached to the solenoid.

don't mean to thread hijack but I thought i'd follow up on this comment after double checking. Unsure if the named guns are discussed elsewhere (if so some of this info is going to be old news, sorry).

Out of the two new 'Named' guns I have one had reduced 'stroke' on the slide as can be seen here,

Gun 1 (no issue)

Gun 2 reduced stroke

turns out the top metal part of the slide the plastic piece screws to has two sets of holes, gun 1 is using the set which results in a greater stroke length, gun 2 using the other ones.

So mount the metal slide with the other holes right? well that solves the stroke length issue but reveals another problem which it appears this bodge was trying to solve.
The recoil spring is actually shorter on gun 2 as well so when using the holes with the longer stroke the slide just flaps around as there is no tension holding it forward (see the screw driver hold back the loose spring)

Also worth noting the microswitch and position relative to the trigger (one no brand the other is an omron, trigger spring is on the bench), the omron activates as soon as the trigger moves, the other one pretty much needs the trigger fully pulled back.

Also when looking at a like for like comparison there appears to be alot more going on inside the Named gun, look here at a Guncon for comparison (pink gun)
The named has a force feedback motor in the grip which i'm guessing is controlled using that small PCB.

Nothing here is the end of the world, longer/stronger springs can be fitted (providing the solenoid can over come them) and the microswitch can be adjusted, just thought it would be some handy info for reference.

 

[Franco23444]

don't mean to thread hijack but I thought i'd follow up on this comment after double checking. Unsure if the named guns are discussed elsewhere (if so some of this info is going to be old news, sorry).

Out of the two new 'Named' guns I have one had reduced 'stroke' on the slide as can be seen here,

Gun 1 (no issue)

Gun 2 reduced stroke

turns out the top metal part of the slide the plastic piece screws to has two sets of holes, gun 1 is using the set which results in a greater stroke length, gun 2 using the other ones.

So mount the metal slide with the other holes right? well that solves the stroke length issue but reveals another problem which it appears this bodge was trying to solve.
The recoil spring is actually shorter on gun 2 as well so when using the holes with the longer stroke the slide just flaps around as there is no tension holding it forward (see the screw driver hold back the loose spring)

Also worth noting the microswitch and position relative to the trigger (one no brand the other is an omron, trigger spring is on the bench), the omron activates as soon as the trigger moves, the other one pretty much needs the trigger fully pulled back.

Also when looking at a like for like comparison there appears to be alot more going on inside the Named gun, look here at a Guncon for comparison (pink gun)
The named has a force feedback motor in the grip which i'm guessing is controlled using that small PCB.

Nothing here is the end of the world, longer/stronger springs can be fitted (providing the solenoid can over come them) and the microswitch can be adjusted, just thought it would be some handy info for reference.

Thank you! This is extremely helpful! I really like the Named guns, they don’t feel cheap and the lens is perfect. Much larger and slimmer lens than the Namco gun. They didn’t cheap out either cause the lens (on mine, at least) is made out of glass. The only disappointing element of the gun is the extremely weak recoil. Not sure if it’s because of the circuit that it originally came with or the solenoid itself. Sadly, if someone just wants to use it as a normal light gun for their games, there’s no pin out anywhere. I did manage to make it work but I didn’t document the pin outs, especially since the wire colors don’t match up.
I will do a couple of videos in the next couple of days showcasing my IR gun. Still working on recoil functionality. I call my arcade guns the NamCons. Kinda stupid, but funny.

 

[tiff_lee]

Thank you! This is extremely helpful! I really like the Named guns, they don’t feel cheap and the lens is perfect. Much larger and slimmer lens than the Namco gun. They didn’t cheap out either cause the lens (on mine, at least) is made out of glass. The only disappointing element of the gun is the extremely weak recoil. Not sure if it’s because of the circuit that it originally came with or the solenoid itself. Sadly, if someone just wants to use it as a normal light gun for their games, there’s no pin out anywhere. I did manage to make it work but I didn’t document the pin outs, especially since the wire colors don’t match up.
I will do a couple of videos in the next couple of days showcasing my IR gun. Still working on recoil functionality. I call my arcade guns the NamCons. Kinda stupid, but funny.

These are supposed to be a like for like swap with genuine Time Crisis 1/2 guns, the Named guns have 7 wires coming out of them but they go into a 7pin > 6 pin adaptor (green & brown are common at the adaptor).

I'm not sure if there is more going on with that PCB (i didnt do any real investigating) but the 24V supply for the solenoid is the white & yellow wires. They go to that PCB then there is a separate 2 pin plug (black/red) to the solenoid, the wires are real puny which is probably giving some volt drop which you can attribute to the weak recoil, again I didn't really do any investigation into this as I only intended to look at the slide stoke issue.

More on topic though this thread has triggered my interest again in a Crisis Zone setup (hence my motivation to pull these guns apart). I'm a little confused how you have arcade hardware (for crisis zone) working on a LCD, i'm clearly missing something here. Are you using the original camera setup in conjunction with your LCD?

I have a crisis zone gun as well which i've done nothing with as of yet, I was just gonna convert it using PS2 guncon parts to play Crisis Zone but the problem then is you have the screen white out all the time when shooting. With what you're developing could I use the original arcade hardware with say my 60" rear projection TV?

 

[Franco23444]

The named has a force feedback motor in the grip which i'm guessing is controlled using that small PCB.

I have tried to get that motor to work. I found out that the motor doesn’t work for arcade games (without mods or custom hardware). It works for console to arcade converted games.
Let me explain:
I’m pretty sure you know but for those who don’t and are interested: these guns were also used for knock off arcade cabs that had a home console inside. Those cabs also used a custom PSX to Jamma converter with a “custom” eprom (I’m guessing so you can’t access in game menus) and some extra circuitry for the hand motor force feedback. Pretty interesting tech but I don’t know anything about them apart from pictures online and some ridiculously expensive sets on Alibaba.com. The ones that catch my interest are the Time crisis 4 Named guns. The knock off cabs use a PlayStation 3 slim and a somewhat modified version of Time Crisis 4. The guns seem to use some sort of Gun-con 3/ Wii type tech as the cabs use a HDTV and the usb IR sensors. Would love to get my hands on a set eventually.

 

[Franco23444]

With what you're developing could I use the original arcade hardware with say my 60" rear projection TV?

The answer is yes! You can use any screen, I have tested my gun with Crts and modern Flatscreens, with the biggest CRT I own which is 32” and the biggest Flatscreen I currently own which is 85”.

Are you using the original camera setup in conjunction with your LCD?

I do have some original CCD Cameras but I have tested and concluded that black and white CCD camera and a IR filter work the best as they don’t catch the light emitting from the displays and only sees the IR light from the gun. I was inspired to start this project because I like the arcade versions of Crisis Zone, Time Crisis 3, and Vampire Night and wanted to attempt to play them on an LCD monitor. I have seen a lot of videos of Crisis Zone but all of them were recorded using a camera pointed at the crt screen and there hasn’t been any video captured videos for any of the arcade versions of those games. Also, there were lots of myths that the cabs used a special IR led with a specific wavelength , special glass, mirrors ,special matte/ anti reflective or super glossy film on the screens themselves. I managed to break those myths. Also, the rarity of the gun parts and the gun themselves. Another point of inspiration was that I used to see an abundant amount of Crisis Zone arcade pcbs for cheap on eBay. I can tell why they were sorta cheap. The gun is a major factor to playing the game. I bought a cheap set and began experimenting. Playing Crisis Zone with a hand gun is quite satisfying and I wanted to make sure my gun would work on all the Namco CCD camera games. My point is, I want people to play these games without breaking the bank.

 

[Franco23444]

I got a video of vampire night working on an LCD screen:

View: https://youtu.be/dMNHaA9ShzU

 

[tiff_lee]

The answer is yes! You can use any screen, I have tested my gun with Crts and modern Flatscreens, with the biggest CRT I own which is 32” and the biggest Flatscreen I currently own which is 85”.

I do have some original CCD Cameras but I have tested and concluded that black and white CCD camera and a IR filter work the best as they don’t catch the light emitting from the displays and only sees the IR light from the gun. I was inspired to start this project because I like the arcade versions of Crisis Zone, Time Crisis 3, and Vampire Night and wanted to attempt to play them on an LCD monitor. I have seen a lot of videos of Crisis Zone but all of them were recorded using a camera pointed at the crt screen and there hasn’t been any video captured videos for any of the arcade versions of those games. Also, there were lots of myths that the cabs used a special IR led with a specific wavelength , special glass, mirrors ,special matte/ anti reflective or super glossy film on the screens themselves. I managed to break those myths. Also, the rarity of the gun parts and the gun themselves. Another point of inspiration was that I used to see an abundant amount of Crisis Zone arcade pcbs for cheap on eBay. I can tell why they were sorta cheap. The gun is a major factor to playing the game. I bought a cheap set and began experimenting. Playing Crisis Zone with a hand gun is quite satisfying and I wanted to make sure my gun would work on all the Namco CCD camera games. My point is, I want people to play these games without breaking the bank.

Excellent cheers for that, looking forward to when you work out the kinks and put up a required parts list so I can convert my Crisis Zone gun, speaking of which do you need any tear down pictures of one?

I had a quick look for arcade stuff, plenty of Crisis Zone board sets on ebay but I noticed a distinct lack of the Rays I/O board and only the V221 MIU was available.

@djsheep @mR_CaESaR see this is why I was staying off here, its been like a week and already looking at adding another project to the backlog ><

 

[djsheep]

@tiff_lee I reckon two more weeks on here and there’ll be another 40ft of cabs on their way from 日本

 

[Franco23444]

Excellent cheers for that, looking forward to when you work out the kinds and put up a required parts list so I can convert my Crisis Zone gun, speaking of which do you need any tear down pictures of one?

I actually own a Crisis Zone arcade gun. I must admit, I feel like I overpaid for it, especially since the gun harness was cut from the machine and the shell was pretty beat up.

I had a quick look for arcade stuff, plenty of Crisis Zone board sets on ebay but I noticed a distinct lack of the Rays I/O board and only the V221 MIU was available.

yeah, the Rays PCB is pretty hard to find and is the most compatible with all the Namco CCD Camera gun games. I was just glad that @andynumbers has 2 partially working ones from a deluxe Crisis Zone cab. I was able to test them and get the information I needed with them. From what I have concluded, especially with some other forum sites, is that the rays pcb seems to be unreliable. Seems to break often and suffers from heating issues.
The V221 MIU Crisis Zone I/O pcb seems to be the most reliable and easiest to find. The TMIU and XMIU variants of the same I/O board have some slight differences and are the “rarest” to find online at the moment. On the MIU pcb, there’s an unpopulated 6 pin header and unpopulated transistor spots that Time Crisis 3 and Vampire Night player 2 gun led uses. It’s not necessary for Time Crisis 3 as there are some pcbs without it but it’s necessary for vampire night, especially since two IR leds are being pointed at the same screen. Vampire Night is going to be one of the more trickier ones to set up without having the Rays pcb or the TMIU pcbs.
Now, a question some might have is “will the Crisis Zone I/O V221 MIU board work with vampire night or Time Crisis 3?” The V221 board will work with Time Crisis 3 as the XMIU pcb seems to be a rebranded MIU pcb. It will not work with vampire night because the I/O board has a different EPROM and Altera MAX FPGA chip. The vampire night TMIU board will not work with Crisis Zone or Time Crisis 3 either. The gun cursor glitches out with Crisis Zone and a blank screen shows up on Time Crisis 3’s gun calibration test screen. One thing I haven’t tried is swapping around the EPROMs. I want to dump the eproms first so I can have some backups just in case I do something stupid. I haven’t seen anything online about those EPROMs being dumped or having backup files. Not 100% sure if the FPGA chip is the same for all or completely different.

 

[tiff_lee]

@tiff_lee I reckon two more weeks on here and there’ll be another 40ft of cabs on their way from 日本

mate if only I had the space, I still have the last lot sat in my kitchen still

Yeah ok looks like ill try picking up a MIU pcb then but ill keep my eye out for Rays, always got storage space for random junk arcade PCBs ><

 

[Franco23444]

Well, this is another update! I can’t seem to find some reasonable prices for the guns and I don’t want to have a super limited expensive item either so I resorted to another method. Hope this is interesting to anyone. And yes, the guns will be much cheaper in price, not in quality!

 

[lukemorse1]

Well, this is another update! I can’t seem to find some reasonable prices for the guns and I don’t want to have a super limited expensive item either so I resorted to another method. Hope this is interesting to anyone. And yes, the guns will be much cheaper in price, not in quality!

I'm interested in picking up 2x of your custom led set ups with the guns for my Vampire Night as well. Put me on the list if you could.

 

[Franco23444]

Well I got another announcement to make. I will eventually make a new thread but I feel like I should post it here. The custom gun shells I made are pretty awesome. I will be making some in different colors to replace your old, worn out shells or for other projects like Aimtrak, Sinden, or Gun4IR use. They will be modeled after the “Named” guns but Namco ones will be available. will be posting pictures of the gun soon.

 

[subjec2change]

Well I got another announcement to make. I will eventually make a new thread but I feel like I should post it here. The custom gun shells I made are pretty awesome. I will be making some in different colors to replace your old, worn out shells or for other projects like Aimtrak, Sinden, or Gun4IR use. They will be modeled after the “Named” guns but Namco ones will be available. will be posting pictures of the gun soon.

Hey its me Nick from youtube! I Made it! Right as I found this while looking for the V221 MIU you told me to get on Youtube.

it chaps my ass because i dont have the money for it RN https://www.ebay.com/itm/284448323551?hash=item423a70f7df:g:26UAAOSwG85hPPB9

Someone else will get it and I still dont know if the Fat Shark FPV CCD camera i got will work.

I already have a Crisis Zone Board and it is plug in play in my TC2 Cabinet anyways but i dont have the right IO board and a V221MIU tested and working is like 140$ so this is a steal because it has one and a defective RAYS AND A CCD Camera thats intact and working.....DO you guys think this will be around till Friday? I want to get it to help on the project with testing ideas.

 

[Franco23444]

That’s actually my listing, I’m selling that whole set and like I said, someone buys it, they will get a free IR gun once I start shipping them. Oh and hi Nick!

 

[subjec2change]

That’s actually my listing, I’m selling that whole set and like I said, someone buys it, they will get a free IR gun once I start shipping them. Oh and hi Nick!

Oh shit can you hold on lol


I didnt see a offer for you new gun though. Funny enough i even have the same IR sensors you first proposed.

 

[Franco23444]

Oh shit can you hold on lol


I didnt see a offer for you new gun though. Funny enough i even have the same IR sensors you first proposed.

I’m selling it so I can fully fund my gun shell project, those tiny IR led emitter are good for like a month. After that, they get pretty dim and die. I built a custom new piece model after the original ones found in the Crisis Zone machine gun. I got my hands on an original Crisis Zone gun and investigated it. My design is a through-hole version. Need to make an SMD version.

 

[subjec2change]

I’m selling it so I can fully fund my gun shell project, those tiny IR led emitter are good for like a month. After that, they get pretty dim and die. I built a custom new piece model after the original ones found in the Crisis Zone machine gun. I got my hands on an original Crisis Zone gun and investigated it. My design is a through-hole version. Need to make an SMD version.

A SMD Version? Can you elaborate? Im willing to buy it i just cant till payday on friday :< It would give me a spare board to test and also would give me a CCD to compare with my Mojo Camera 600 CCD Model#FSV1234 for further CCD alternatives that are easy to come by. I print my own firearms btw and im wondering if we can get our hands on a Crisis zone gun maybe we could find a way to print the molds? I dont know how to get model scans though.. What do you think of that?