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nassekova

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I got this "untested" Bee Storm and it seems to have something wrong. At first I just cleaned the contacts and it booted to red or grey screen. Once I got it to boot on this weird symbol. Today I started to work with it properly so I

- Opened it up. Cleaned the contacts good and checked them with multimeter (those that seemed a bit dirt or so). Also washed the plastics (took the label off first).
- Changed all the capacitors. There were 4x 10uf 16v caps, 1x 47uf 16v and 1x 100uf 16v. Got new low esr Panasonics on there.
- Checked the boards by "eye" and could not spot anything broken or loose (not with microscope or anything, might do that later).

It now boots first to red screen with the start sound, then goes to white screen and ends up stuck on this weird symbol ?( @GC8TECH or anyone else have a clue what this is? Any suggestions what to check next? Or is it toasted for good?


Video of the boot


The cart


Boards with new caps and all cleaned up





 
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ShootTheCore

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I"m not as familiar with the specifics of PGM carts as other folks here, but one place you can start - if you have access to an EPROM programmer, try removing the two EPROMs, dump them, and compare the checksums of the files against MAME. It's possible that one of those EPROMs is corrupt or failed.
 

nassekova

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I"m not as familiar with the specifics of PGM carts as other folks here, but one place you can start - if you have access to an EPROM programmer, try removing the two EPROMs, dump them, and compare the checksums of the files against MAME. It's possible that one of those EPROMs is corrupt or failed.
I don't have one yet, but it seems I need to get one! I think there was topic in here where they recommended good readers/programmers so I guess I will start there. If you have one to recommend, feel free to do so :thumbup:

So I can read those EPROMS, check the hash on MAME rom and if they don't match, I can write the MAME roms on these and fix them?
 

ShootTheCore

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So I can read those EPROMS, check the hash on MAME rom and if they don't match, I can write the MAME roms on these and fix them?
Yes, although you'll have to peel the stickers off the top of the EPROMs and put them under a UV light for 20-30 minutes first to erase them before you can reprogram them. You can buy an EPROM Eraser off of Ebay for not much money.

That's also assuming that the EPROM itself hasn't failed - if that's the case then it may refuse to read or be reprogrammed. All you can do there is replace it with another one of the same type.

As for an inexpensive programmer, I really like the Wellon VP-598. They cost a little more upfront than some other programmers but will handle pretty much everything you throw at them. I recommended the same unit in that thread.
 

Neo-Alec

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Yep, I agree checking the EPROMs is the next step I was going to suggest. I would've done that before replacing the caps.
 

nassekova

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I bought the Wellon VP-598! Thanks for the help. Also bought that 17$ UV eraser and some extracting tool for the chips. Now just need to wait them to arrive and start digging what those EPROMs have eaten!
 

twistedsymphony

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Yeah I made that mistake 20 years ago when I first got into this big time. Broke a few before I realized they weren't for DIP. I did think it was not an effective tool when using it but figured they knew something I didn't. LOL.
 

nassekova

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Well thats exactly what I got :D With this green one I thought is for the bigger chips? But I guess those DIP are even larger. Thanks for the heads up, will get that bent flathead too!
 

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nassekova

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Finally my Wellon came from Aliexpress (after 1 months quarantine) and got to poke on this!

At first I tried it with my old Win7 laptop but it had some problems loading stuff and was really slow so changed to my newer Win10 machine. This has pretty simple and clean GUI to work with. These EPROMs and their sockets were super dirty so that alone could have been the fault but another EPROM does not match MAME and has lot of FFFF (I guess "empty") HEX slots? So it seems that M27C160 EPROM is faulty!

My first EPROM eraser was DOA and 2nd is still coming, so can't try to empty and re-write that chip yet. I think I might order new one anyways. Do you guys have some Ebay seller to recommend?

Anyhow, was nice to learn more about these chips and now have a tool to debug them! Hopefully I get this to work with new EPROM and mame HEX file.

EDIT: Just bought 10pcs of M27C160 from some Ebay seller.

Wellon


Working EPROM (M27C210A)



Non-working one (M27C160)

 
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GC8TECH

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Always buy new / used eproms. Never erase the original ones... in case you need them latter.... Also you may need to check what revision is in the eproms... there are sevral diffrent versions of the Program roms etc.... Make sure your comparing whats in the chips to the correct mame rom version.

T.
 

adgenet

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A bit off topic but does the VP598 lack any features or compatibility the Top 3000 has?
I'm thinking of picking up a programmer myself as well.
 

ShootTheCore

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VP598 is the entry-level programmer I recommend. It supports more EPROMs than the TOP3000 without adapter boards, and it can program 27C322 chips in one pass while the TOP3000 requires bank switching.
 

GC8TECH

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I have the wellon 798. Its the 2nd highest programer they offer.... Its only limit is it won't flash ANY 128mbit chips. Only the 998 does... if i had of known i would have saved an extra 200-300 aud and got the 998.

T.
 

nassekova

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Finally my M27C160 EPROMs came and I got to continue this project. While I opened the cartridge I noticed it said V100 u8 on the old chip. Then checked what version I compared it and it was V102 (World)... :whistling: So I got the Japanese ROM! Downloaded the right MAME file and surprise , surprise it is a match... Now I have 10 M27C160 for nothing, way to go!

BUT then I decided to check those other chips that were socketed on the cartridge, ATF22V10C-15PU. And what do you know, another one of these is busted! So hopefully new ATF22V10C-15PU will fix this, to be continued...





 

TheDeath

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Are these PALs dumped and converted to Gal?
If these are protected and no one dumped them, you can throw it in the bin
VP598 is the entry-level programmer I recommend. It supports more EPROMs than the TOP3000 without adapter boards, and it can program 27C322 chips in one pass while the TOP3000 requires bank switching.
I always used my Top3000 for 27c322 and i've never done anything else than put them on the socket and hit burn. Maybe an old software revision?
 

nassekova

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Are these PALs dumped and converted to Gal?
If these are protected and no one dumped them, you can throw it in the bin
VP598 is the entry-level programmer I recommend. It supports more EPROMs than the TOP3000 without adapter boards, and it can program 27C322 chips in one pass while the TOP3000 requires bank switching.
I always used my Top3000 for 27c322 and i've never done anything else than put them on the socket and hit burn. Maybe an old software revision?
At least MAME did not have .u14 or .u15 files so it is looking bad... I thought that perhaps these are some memory chips that cartridge writes but it seems that that is not the case. I can read the working one and it gives me file full of ones and zeroes, so at least I can dump that. Does that sound proper content of the dump, some sort of assembly binary? What are the odds that these would have identical roms and I could just get new empty PAL and write it with the dump of the other working chip? Is that completely unheard of :rolleyes: ? Or can some one with Bee Storm dump their files from these two PALs?
 
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