SOLD Dodonpachi saidaioujo Conversion sold for 2500usd

[kazuo]

guys, please do not use terms if you don't know what they actually means. neither of emulators of undocumented platforms (=all arcades) was developed using clean-room reverse engineering. all of them are "not clean"

I'm well-aware that a lot of this stuff was developed using proprietary documentation, SDKs, etc. That's the elephant in the room that you're not supposed to talk about.

 

[Aurich]

Honestly, if somebody ever thought this guy is not 100% motivated by greed needs to watch The Wolf of Wall Street.

Ah yes, as everyone knows, the best way for greedy people to easily make a quick fortune is to (checks notes) run an arcade business in the 2020s.

 

[MetalliC]

I'm well-aware that a lot of this stuff was developed using proprietary documentation, SDKs, etc. That's the elephant in the room that you're not supposed to talk about

you didn't get the point.
in short, how most of arcades was RE'd: was dumped their's code&data ROMs and analyzed. this is reverse engineering, it's legal in US, but it is NOT "clean-room". clean-room it's when you don't do even single peek into some software code or data at all. all the knowledge are magically appears in your mind

 

[skate323k137]

Ah yes, as everyone knows, the best way for greedy people to easily make a quick fortune is to (checks notes) run an arcade business in the 2020s.

It's profitable to sue people for imaginary sums of money in some people's minds

I'm not saying exa is a patent abuser necessarily, but still. There are lots of people in lots of industries who buy up IP and then bully the shit out of people.

 

[Aurich]

There are lots of people in lots of industries who buy up IP and then bully the shit out of people.

Sure, but how is this an example of that? Exa is selling the game, they're not acting like patent trolls or something, sitting on IP and just threatening people for no reason or to pump up someone's PCB collection.

https://exa.ac/en/games/dodonpachi-true-death-exa-label/?v=0f177369a3b7

I'm not overly precious about people playing free ROMs of old games that aren't for sale anymore. But in this case the game is for sale, they're trying to bring Cave shmups back to the arcade on some level, and asking MAME to not undercut them seems entirely reasonable.

This anger level feels really misplaced to me.

 

[skate323k137]

Sure, but how is this an example of that? Exa is selling the game, they're not acting like patent trolls or something, sitting on IP and just threatening people for no reason or to pump up someone's PCB collection.

https://exa.ac/en/games/dodonpachi-true-death-exa-label/?v=0f177369a3b7

I'm not overly precious about people playing free ROMs of old games that aren't for sale anymore. But in this case the game is for sale, they're trying to bring Cave shmups back to the arcade on some level, and asking MAME to not undercut them seems entirely reasonable.

This anger level feels really misplaced to me.

Again, not angry. They have every right to defend their actual IP. MAME isn't theirs. Nor does MAME stand to profit AFAIK.

Go after the people distributing the ROM, sure. Going after MAME like this is like the old blame the VCR companies for piracy. They weren't liable.

Now, MAME not supporting it on principle is actually cool. Garbage legal threats aren't.

The point is legally their C and D is not defensible. But I think that point has been made so I'm trying to be done worrying about it.

For posterity:

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 09:20:54 +0100 (CET)
From: noreply@mamedev.org
Reply-To: legal@exa.ac
Subject: Cease & Desist Notice - Copyright Infringement
To: mamedev@mamedev.org

MAME Team,

We, exA-Arcadia, are the arcade licensees of Cave Interactive Co.,
Ltd.'s arcade titles including Akai Katana and Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
(hereinafter referred to as the "Product"). It has been determined
that you are currently using the Product which is copyrighted work
inaccordance with Title 17 of the U.S. Code without our
authorization. We have found the following instances of unauthorized
use of our Product:
1. Akai Katana
2. Dodonpachi Saidaioujou

Location and Description
MAME CV1000 Driver
https://github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/master/src/mame/drivers/cv1k.cpp

Permission was neither asked nor granted to reproduce our Product and
your actions therefore constitute an infringement of our rights.
Accordingly, we demand that you immediately remove the material and
cease any further all of our Product, including any other
infringements, otherwise you could be liable for statutory damages as
high as $150,000 as set forth in Section 504(c)(2)(Remedies for
Infringement) therein.

A lawsuit will be commenced against you if you do not cease the use of
the aforementioned Product.

If we do not receive an affirmative response from you by January 1,
2022 indicating that you have fully complied with these requirements
we shall consider taking any and all legal remedies available to
rectify this situation.
--
Submitted via form from mamedev.org

2 days to comply over a holiday weekend seems totally reasonable /s

 

[cave hermit]

I mean, what are your options if you:
-Don't live in Japan
-Don't live near a R1
-Don't have $5000 to blow

I guess you can get a 360 and deal with input lag, download an older version of mame, wait for an exa crack, or... play something else.

 

[kebrank]

Ah yes, as everyone knows, the best way for greedy people to easily make a quick fortune is to (checks notes) run an arcade business in the 2020s.

Yeah, he is not making hundreds of millions a year so he is not greedy, good point…
Maybe if we keep giving him money for his pirated roms and buying his EXA systems and games he can get there. Come on, let´s help his poor soul !!!
\o/.k.

 

[VxD]

The people who like to shit on Shou are prompt to forget that he did more for the arcade scene than they have and ever will.

Was it a dick move? Arguably.
Is exA in the right? Absolutely, they bought the IP from Cave.
Does it matter? Absolutely not! The ROM is “preserved” and is still playable by just drag-and-dropping it to the MAME executable. If you’re tech-savvy, nothing prevents you from building a patched MAME from source and work around this small inconvenience.

I wish people would spend as much energy actually playing the game than complaining about it online, then they would realize it’s not that great of a game in the first place and definitely not something to waste their first of January raging about.

 

[skate323k137]

The people who like to shit on Shou are prompt to forget that he did more for the arcade scene than they have and ever will.

Was it a dick move? Arguably.
Is exA in the right? Absolutely, they bought the IP from Cave.
Does it matter? Absolutely not! The ROM is “preserved” and is still playable by just drag-and-dropping it to the MAME executable. If you’re tech-savvy, nothing prevents you from building a patched MAME from source and work around this small inconvenience.

I wish people would spend as much energy actually playing the game than complaining about it online, then they would realize it’s not that great of a game in the first place and definitely not something to waste their first of January raging about.

How are they in the right threatening this kind of legal action over lines of code in github that they did not buy (unlike the actual IP)? Legit question, no animosity.

I can try to buy all the old SNES rights to a game but that gives me 0 right to sue snes9x at this point.

And ultimately you're right about the game, frankly without this mess I probably never would have even downloaded this rom. I just personally care about IP law, and I'll be the first to back up a substantial claim. This isn't one.

And it doesn't matter what someone has done for the "scene." Right is right and if someone is being a dick they should get called on it. Mame is kind to do this but the way he went about it was very assholish IMO.

Anyway I'm happy this is dumped and out, and the knuckles meme can hopefully chill. Happy new year dudes.

 

[Aurich]

Again, not angry.

You're not, but this thread has plenty of examples.

I mean, what are your options if you:

Same as your options have always been. You deal with it, or you find a workaround.

But nobody is entitled to anything. There's a lot of nostalgia for the golden age of arcades here. Rightly so, it was a cool time. And if you didn't live near an arcade or didn't have any money you know what you did? Nothing, hold that kid. It's so much better now. But just because something exists doesn't make it automatically yours, and that's just life sometimes.

In this particular case it's a tradeoff. If we want there to be a chance as new arcade titles, that aren't tied to a network you cannot access or use, then we have to support those trying to make it work.

I just personally care about IP law, and I'll be the first to back up a substantial claim. This isn't one.

I don't see how that's relevant though, you're focusing on a fight that doesn't actually exist. From the MAME dev in question:

"Removing games when the rightholders ask has always been our policy. We see no reason to change it now. We're not here to harm those who own the rights legally."

This isn't a legal fight. MAME isn't protesting.

 

[skate323k137]

You're not, but this thread has plenty of examples.


Same as your options have always been. You deal with it, or you find a workaround.

But nobody is entitled to anything. There's a lot of nostalgia for the golden age of arcades here. Rightly so, it was a cool time. And if you didn't live near an arcade or didn't have any money you know what you did? Nothing, hold that kid. It's so much better now. But just because something exists doesn't make it automatically yours, and that's just life sometimes.

In this particular case it's a tradeoff. If we want there to be a chance as new arcade titles, that aren't tied to a network you cannot access or use, then we have to support those trying to make it work.


I don't see how that's relevant though, you're focusing on a fight that doesn't actually exist. From the MAME dev in question:

"Removing games when the rightholders ask has always been our policy. We see no reason to change it now. We're not here to harm those who own the rights legally."

This isn't a legal fight. MAME isn't protesting.

I know they aren't protesting. If they wanted to, exa has no leg to stand on. A lawyer from fiverr could laugh the c and d itself off.

Point is... They could have just asked, right? 2 days and 150,000 isn't excessive? This is behavior of someone I'm supposed to appreciate in the "scene?"

 

[Darksoft]

Thread closed. Too late here to think clearly. We like to see debate, but no insults or drama, that will be moderated as we always do.