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FS Let's (Respectfully) talk about the Rules™

For Sale
GeeDee said:
Agree with the sentiment about IC threads, but let's make sure we follow the title and keep things respectful :P

but the main argument/solution is to require a certain post count to view the marketplace.

Personally, I think you can have the highest post count on the site and still have/give some dodgy opinions/advice :rolleyes:
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Edited my post so feelings don't get hurt, even though I'm just poking at people a little in a sibling kind of way.

I like that idea that you have to have a certain post count, then a mod reviews your posts before granting access to the MP, but that does limit things. Maybe only to PM or reply to threads? That way new people can swing by and dump off PCBs. I like the idea of sellers dropping by, it adds to our pool of choices, even though others do not like the idea (for valid reasons too).

One your last point, for sure. I do it all the time, some times on purpose!
 
lol no feelings hurt here and I doubt anyone elses are, again, I just really don't wanna see a thread that could potentially do some real good get tanked via mods over some misread sarcasm :P (plus, ngl, calling games "toys" hits a little harder at the point then what you had first, imo :rolleyes:)

XtraSmiley said:
that idea that you have to have a certain post count, then a mod reviews your posts before granting access to the MP, but that does limit things. Maybe only to PM or reply to threads? That way new people can swing by and dump off PCBs. I like the idea of sellers dropping by, it adds to our pool of choices, even though others do not like the idea (for valid reasons too).
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Only thing about this is, while it's not a bad idea at all to do a little vetting, is that it puts a good deal of extra work on the mods shoulders (of which I'm not sure there are THAT many?) I don't really think you could properly restrict selling vs buying though; you either can access and create marketplace threads or you cant view the marketplace at all (strictly speaking from "what will the forum software let you do" as far as per-user permissions.)

XtraSmiley said:
One your last point, for sure. I do it all the time, some times on purpose!
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and tbh sometimes it's needed lol :rolleyes: more so just putting that out there since I know some members or folks outside of forums have the belief that its post count > all other opinions, but I really hate that that's the perception for some. I would Hope some new-er users chime in to give their perspective on the situation. Imo, any buyer/seller's opinion is as valid as the next- regardless of post count, but you've just gotta state your case and do it in a nice way is all. All I (and I think many others) are asking is that you at least TRY to be "a part of the community", instead of just using it like Ebay. Like I've said elsewhere: we can be pretty nice people and we COULD be friends, but you gotta actually talk to us outside of the stock market to find out :P
 
Eh, this is a fun read, but the reality is all forums go through this. Just check out KLOVs decades of arguments about the marketplace there, prices policing, etc.

At the end of the day, whatever is blocked here, moves elsewhere to do the same thing. I think it's going pretty well here, and yes, these endless "I have Cave PCBs for sale" threads are hammered hard b/c they are in demand. If it was any other types of games, it wouldn't be so bad.

It's not a big deal either way, but I know it feels more emotional when you really want that certain item...
 
Naive-ish noob thoughts from me:
- I voted for “require a price” in selling threads. Cuts out the weird dance that sometimes accompanies sales
- If you’re selling something and don’t want to “box yourself in” by naming a price, list it on eBay and post the link here. Makes it a truly open sale and doesn’t frustrate users. Also publicly displays sale price.
- If a seller wants to try to sell something to close friends/active members first, seller should reach out to them privately, IMO. This is a courtesy to other members who wouldn’t be considered as the first wave of buyers
- The above bullet isn’t in the spirit of continuing to foster the community (by opening up the possibility of making connections with new members) in my opinion, but it’s the seller’s right.
 
Prices should be required IMO, period. Trades can be a gray area but it would be obvious if someone's abusing it. I'm fine with trade threads, especially with wish lists. But if the primary goal is a sale, list a price.

If you want top dollar start high and slowly lower it. Personally I'm of the "put it up on the forums cheaper than eBay to keep it in the community" squad but I know you can't require that in any way of course.
 
Why not just list a price (your reserve) and put OBO after, that means, I want $10, but if you offer $12 and the next person offers $14, well, I'll take 14. It's a way to ensure you get a price you want (your initial price) and if you get some bites higher, you can take them.

Having no price is annoying as fuck, but I still think really, none of this really matters, people gonna do what people gonna do.
 
I'm another newer person who's only been on the buyer end of the market place so far. I try to be respectful of sellers and other potential buyers by waiting to message/post a commitment to buy until there is a price listed. If sales of unpriced items are happening in DMs then it would benefit me to be one of those aggressive, "thirsty" buyers who blindly commits to buy/messages without knowing a price, assuming I'm willing to pay. That feels like a perverse incentive structure for creating a strong community, since it kind of incentivizes being impulsive and ruthless on the buyer side and allows sellers to name their price. It also sets up uncomfortable interactions where someone commits to buying without a price, the seller tells them something outrageous and the buyer walks away. There's also potential for the sold price of an item to not get added to the thread (as it's supposed to) if everything is in DMs.

On another topic: post requirements for marketplace participation are tricky. Sure you'll weed out some people who are there in bad faith, which is great. When I joined the forum I spent a good bit of time looking at the existing threads to get an idea of what I'd be interested in, then headed to the marketplace to try and find a decent price on some of that hardware. I didn't really have the experience to contribute anything more than "huh, that's cool" to threads at that point. Ended up buying a number of things from people on the marketplace and have been contributing actively to a thread or two as a result (mostly the PRAS3 thread).

My point is that the marketplace and the rest of the forum kind of feed off each other and that post requirements, while probably effective to a degree, will likely increase the amount of effectively empty posts cluttering conversations.

Just my $.02.
 
Agree that post count restrictions have their own perks and pitfalls, though harder agree that listing prices are more the point and a very important and reletively harmless additional rule that (imo) is easy for everyone to follow.

I think the post count discussion really only has the most merit when bring up "confidence in shipping/post-transaction", nothing else. Without sounding cruel, being more active in the community before selling a high-value items means that if you REALLY drop the ball on shipping or do some funny business like phony charge backs, your reputation as a seller/buyer is going to take a hit; you have something to lose. Most regular members will take more care in their packaging and have better transaction etiquette because they want to keep that good-faith good-deals relationship, whereas the fly-buy-night new users don't have much incentive to do honest business if they aren't going to stick around anyways.

But again, back to the list prices:

gigasturtz said:
If sales of unpriced items are happening in DMs then it would benefit me to be one of those aggressive, "thirsty" buyers who blindly commits to buy/messages without knowing a price, assuming I'm willing to pay. That feels like a perverse incentive structure for creating a strong community, since it kind of incentivizes being impulsive and ruthless on the buyer side and allows sellers to name their price. It also sets up uncomfortable interactions where someone commits to buying without a price, the seller tells them something outrageous and the buyer walks away. There's also potential for the sold price of an item to not get added to the thread (as it's supposed to) if everything is in DMs.
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This is pretty much exactly the situation that I would hope we could lessen by requiring prices. Yes higher offers can always be made after a starting price is posted, but not including a starting price on in-demand items is quite literally asking for disaster imo. Not only for prospective buyers missing out on a title theyre after, but also for sellers who GENUINLY MAY NOT have intentions to start a "silent auction", but DO end up with a swamp of DMs that will inevitably do someone dirty; seller included.
 
GeeDee said:
This is pretty much exactly the situation that I would hope we could lessen by requiring prices. Yes higher offers can always be made after a starting price is posted, but not including a starting price on in-demand items is quite literally asking for disaster imo. Not only for prospective buyers missing out on a title theyre after, but also for sellers who GENUINLY MAY NOT have intentions to start a "silent auction", but DO end up with a swamp of DMs that will inevitably do someone dirty; seller included.
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Everyone can have good intentions but still create a shitty situation.
 
Sorry to bring this up again @GeeDee ; FWIW if a seller is concerned about shade from "new/inactive" buyers (i.e me), there's nothing wrong with respectfully requesting some kind of outside credential (heat/ebay/reddit flair etc) and only dealing with payment methods that have some kind of seller protection.

More on topic, I also voted to require prices in OPs of sale threads. Posting a FS thread and not having prices comes across like a buzzfeed clickbait article. I hate that.

I think Sniping was mentioned a few times as a possible concern here (offering a higher price after someone already indicated they would take at OP's asking), I hate that shit and imo it shouldn't be allowed too.

Also WRT posting more: tbh I'm a relatively silent person online/offline. I'm mostly here to see the projects ppl make and to learn. I'd love to contribute more, once I have enough knowledge to do so! <3
 
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The biggest bullshit on this site has always been the "I'm thinking about selling this" sales thread. IMO, don't come to the plate unless you have a price in mind and are ready to sell. If you want a bidding war, take that shit to ebay. If you have a price on what an item is worth, I'm pretty sure there is a "price check" thread here. MMAO is cancer for a forum sales group and if you don't believe me, go see KLOV.

Also, minimum post count shit is for the birds and puts the brakes on commerce. If you want to buy something, buy it. If you flip it, be prepared to be called out. I think everyone has a list of people they won't sell to, and at this point in this hobby I think that's the way it should be. You do you.
 
WeinerdogSunflasses said:
Naive-ish noob thoughts from me:
- I voted for “require a price” in selling threads. Cuts out the weird dance that sometimes accompanies sales
- If you’re selling something and don’t want to “box yourself in” by naming a price, list it on eBay and post the link here. Makes it a truly open sale and doesn’t frustrate users. Also publicly displays sale price.
- If a seller wants to try to sell something to close friends/active members first, seller should reach out to them privately, IMO. This is a courtesy to other members who wouldn’t be considered as the first wave of buyers
- The above bullet isn’t in the spirit of continuing to foster the community (by opening up the possibility of making connections with new members) in my opinion, but it’s the seller’s right.
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This just about covers what I'd post.

I've lurked for years but only been in a position to actually acquire parts and start on projects in the last year; a year where nothing I was after turned up for sale*.

Frenzies around CAVE, Raizing and other such JAMMA boards are only going to get worse over time as they're pretty much the last remaining games without decent consumer home releases. They have high exchange value (rarity, prestige status) and high use value (chasing plasmo's WR in pink sweets) that's only going to increase as they become more scarce. At the very least requiring listed prices before you post a listing means the bloodbath is public. Nothing's quite as discouraging as deciding you want to try buying a PCB only to see every thread that's ever listed one have an initial post and then a mysterious "Sold" as the only response with no evidence of negotiation.

*anyone got a Jackie Chan in Fists of Fire they want to sell me? :V
 
tbh I don't think the rules are much of an issue in general, except for people not listing sale prices. That happens all the time, and is actually annoying. Enforce that and I'm good. That's helpful information for the whole community, not just the buyer and seller.

It seems like this is really the "Derick" thread for the most part because of his Cave post and what it spawned. And I like Derick, and he's been here a long time and is a valuable member and I don't really care what he does tbh. But, that said, I find that style of thread annoying, and it just seems to make people anxious or mad.

If you haven't dug up the boards yet, just don't post. What's the point of saying "I'm looking for some boards, and I'll post about them when I find them" when you could just ... wait to post until you found them? Only creates frustration.

It's not like you need hype to sell Cave boards for lots of money anyways.
 
Aurich said:
tbh I don't think the rules are much of an issue in general, except for people not listing sale prices. That happens all the time, and is actually annoying. Enforce that and I'm good. That's helpful information for the whole community, not just the buyer and seller.

It seems like this is really the "Derick" thread for the most part because of his Cave post and what it spawned. And I like Derick, and he's been here a long time and is a valuable member and I don't really care what he does tbh. But, that said, I find that style of thread annoying, and it just seems to make people anxious or mad.

If you haven't dug up the boards yet, just don't post. What's the point of saying "I'm looking for some boards, and I'll post about them when I find them" when you could just ... wait to post until you found them? Only creates frustration.

It's not like you need hype to sell Cave boards for lots of money anyways.
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Yeah Derick does this a ton, but he's an old school A-P peep so we tolerate it. I think this spiraled out of control because it was Derick and then 3 other FS threads that had similar things happen.

I think when it's a common, or generic game, this sort of posting is no big deal.

Hey, I'm looking for my P.O.W. PCB, when I find it, I'm selling it, hit me up. No drama.

VS

Hey, I'm looking for my Cave anything PCB, when I find it, I'm selling it, hit me up. Nothing but drama.

At the end of the day, people gonna do what people gonna do. Even if a rule existed requiring you to have it in hand and someone dumped 10 highly sought after PCBs in a thread and was looking to maximize income, the same shit would go down. PM offers, raises in prices, etc.

Force FS only threads with prices would cut back on this, but people would still do it. Hell, that's what a Price Check thread really is. Hey, what's my MMP PCB worth?!?!?! (ten PMs flow in asking to sell at X price).
 
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