MiSTer FPGA

[ShootTheCore]

As far as latency and lag goes, there's what I've read and what I've "felt" through playing it myself.

With what I've read, the HDMI upscaler has been improved drastically in the last few months - I've read tests that show less than 1 frame of latency on the HDMI output now. The USB and Bluetooth controller polling is still handled by the host Linux operating system, so there can be a variable amount of latency there. However, work is proceeding on giving the cores direct access to controls through a modular controller board, so the controller latency situation should improve in the next few months as well.

Here's the article on testing the new HDMI upscaler: https://www.retrorgb.com/mister-hdmi-core-now-sub-1-frame-of-lag.html

With what I've "felt" from playing it myself, I'm impressed. Everything I've played so far has felt responsive and crisp. When I've played games on the Raspberry Pi and Retron 5, I immediately could "feel" the sluggishness in the controls and it would frustrate me - I'm not feeling any of that with the MiSTer.

The real test will be for me personally will be to play through NES Battletoads. I've played that game so much over the years that I've got the timing embedded into my muscle memory, so I'll definitely be able to pick up any substantial latency. I'm going to give that a go here in the next day or two - I'll report back.

 

[suverman]

@ShootTheCore in general are you using the VGA or HDMI?

 

[ShootTheCore]

For now, I'm running HDMI into a VGA analog converter since native VGA isn't supported by all the cores. Feeding into a Mitsubishi Diamondtron CRT monitor.

I may experiment around with a direct VGA to VGA connection later on.

 

[edwin128]

As far as latency and lag goes, there's what I've read and what I've "felt" through playing it myself.

With what I've read, the HDMI upscaler has been improved drastically in the last few months - I've read tests that show less than 1 frame of latency on the HDMI output now. The USB and Bluetooth controller polling is still handled by the host Linux operating system, so there can be a variable amount of latency there. However, work is proceeding on giving the cores direct access to controls through a modular controller board, so the controller latency situation should improve in the next few months as well.

Here's the article on testing the new HDMI upscaler: https://www.retrorgb.com/mister-hdmi-core-now-sub-1-frame-of-lag.html

With what I've "felt" from playing it myself, I'm impressed. Everything I've played so far has felt responsive and crisp. When I've played games on the Raspberry Pi and Retron 5, I immediately could "feel" the sluggishness in the controls and it would frustrate me - I'm not feeling any of that with the MiSTer.

The real test will be for me personally will be to play through NES Battletoads. I've played that game so much over the years that I've got the timing embedded into my muscle memory, so I'll definitely be able to pick up any substantial latency. I'm going to give that a go here in the next day or two - I'll report back.

I am not an expert on the mister, but is it possible to use something like pi2scart to get an direct analog signal to connect to a crt?

 

[suverman]

I am not an expert on the mister, but is it possible to use something like pi2scart to get an direct analog signal to connect to a crt?

MiSTert can output native resolution of the cores (most cores - few obscure hadware cores are HDMI only at the moment) through VGA. You can use a VGA to Scart cable and you are good to go. Ofcourse you need the I/O board.

 

[edwin128]

I am not an expert on the mister, but is it possible to use something like pi2scart to get an direct analog signal to connect to a crt?

MiSTert can output native resolution of the cores (most cores - few obscure hadware cores are HDMI only at the moment) through VGA. You can use a VGA to Scart cable and you are good to go. Ofcourse you need the I/O board.

ok thx.

Is there lag or delay using this method? if there is considerable is it similar to using the real hardware or a software emulation?

 

[ShootTheCore]

There is still a small amount of controller lag when using VGA output because of the USB controller, but otherwise it’s very similar to real hardware and far better than software emulation.

A controller module board is in development for MiSTer that will let you plug in original console controllers and eliminate that last bit of lag when it releases.

 

[ShootTheCore]

The MiSTer with HDMI passed my personal Battletoads test for the most part. I was able to make it to the Clinger Winger stage without skipping any levels, and I believe the stiff D-Pad on the new Saturn USB controller I’m using is what finally did me in on that level.

I can notice a tiny bit more lag than I “feel” with my real NES on a CRT, but not so much that I couldn’t adjust to it. It felt about the same as when I play it on my OLED HDTV with the OSSC upscaler.

 

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

For the MiSTer HDMI pass, the creator has not implanted the w and h adjustments like Analog's FPGA systems? That is what makes the analog devices great when you are going HDMI to analog converter to VGA PC monitor at 720p or 1080p, the W and H adjustments make those products fun with a cheap VGA PC monitor, a poor's man RGB solution

NT mini --> HDFURY II --> VGA PC monitor 720p

 

[suverman]

For the MiSTer HDMI pass, the creator has not implanted the w and h adjustments like Analog's FPGA systems? That is what makes the analog devices great when you are going HDMI to analog converter to VGA PC monitor at 720p or 1080p, the W and H adjustments make those products fun with a cheap VGA PC monitor, a poor's man RGB solution

NT mini --> HDFURY II --> VGA PC monitor 720p

MiSTer has a VGA port, you dont need anything other than OSSC to connect it to VGA PC Monitor for 15kHZ outputs. On the flip side Analog cannot be played on a CRT like MiSTer out of the box yet and downscaling is much harder to compared to upscaling using OSSC.

 

[Flain]

For those testing lag, don't forget to set vsync_adjust=2 in the mister.ini file. As that setting is required for low latency mode.

 

[digitron]

For those testing lag, don't forget to set vsync_adjust=2 in the mister.ini file. As that setting is required for low latency mode.

Does that apply to VGA or just HDMI output?

 

[suverman]

HDMI. VGA afaik runs native resolution without vsync.

 

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

For the MiSTer HDMI pass, the creator has not implanted the w and h adjustments like Analog's FPGA systems? That is what makes the analog devices great when you are going HDMI to analog converter to VGA PC monitor at 720p or 1080p, the W and H adjustments make those products fun with a cheap VGA PC monitor, a poor's man RGB solution

NT mini --> HDFURY II --> VGA PC monitor 720p

MiSTer has a VGA port, you dont need anything other than OSSC to connect it to VGA PC Monitor for 15kHZ outputs. On the flip side Analog cannot be played on a CRT like MiSTer out of the box yet and downscaling is much harder to compared to upscaling using OSSC.

I am referring to those people that just want the main FPGA board and want HDMI only to use with a cheap HDFURY II and a PC CRT at 1080p or 720p.. if the MiSTer has the H & V adjustments build in within the scaler then it is a good cheap solution with a cheap PC CRT.

 

[suverman]

I am referring to those people that just want the main FPGA board and want HDMI only to use with a cheap HDFURY II and a PC CRT at 1080p or 720p.. if the MiSTer has the H & V adjustments build in within the scaler then it is a good cheap solution with a cheap PC CRT.

MiSTer doesnt have H & V adjustment at the moment. Maybe if you explain your case to the devs, they might add it.
Edit: I see what you mean about NT Mini.

 

[pacoarcade]

The IO board has a jumper behind the VGA port which enables 5V. By default the jumper is open (no 5V)

MiSTer VGA to SCART cable from Retroaccess has a 470 ohm resistor for sync signal, so I suppose it outputs a TTL level signal.

I think that jumper selects between 3.3V and 5V. I'm not sure if that's for the sync signal, if so, 3.3V is also too high for SCART specification since it expects up to 1V. With the 470 ohm resistor in series this signal should be attenuated to ~500mV.

I/O board has an option to provide either +5V or +3.3V through VGA PIN9.

 

[KalessinDB]

Being a massive fan of the BlissBox, seeing http://misteraddons.com/product/bli...bJ8b4-KFNDlrIBD3ub-QhlNE5fHUr_2BWeylIQhD1hv3g available for preorder is really pricking my ears up for Mister finally... Anyone else seen this?

 

[suverman]

Being a massive fan of the BlissBox, seeing http://misteraddons.com/product/bli...bJ8b4-KFNDlrIBD3ub-QhlNE5fHUr_2BWeylIQhD1hv3g available for preorder is really pricking my ears up for Mister finally... Anyone else seen this?

All the cables use hdmi so ask long as you can buy the cables its good. Also we dont know if it is going to be true low latency - cores might need updating for this to work the details are sketchy. To use different console controllers on your mister/PC as USBHID this looks like the best board out there.

 

[KalessinDB]

Being a massive fan of the BlissBox, seeing http://misteraddons.com/product/bli...bJ8b4-KFNDlrIBD3ub-QhlNE5fHUr_2BWeylIQhD1hv3g available for preorder is really pricking my ears up for Mister finally... Anyone else seen this?

All the cables use hdmi so ask long as you can buy the cables its good. Also we dont know if it is going to be true low latency - cores might need updating for this to work the details are sketchy. To use different console controllers on your mister/PC as USBHID this looks like the best board out there.

I've already got a whole ton of cables, I own a BlissBox 4play as well as... Whatever he called the single player one, I honestly can't remember. The only ones I don't have are the more expensive low-run adapter boards, but I'll probably eventually get those too because the thing is just too good.

It definitely says that cores need to be updated for the low latency, but even through USB it's pretty awesome... I'm just excited at the idea of having it all built together. I've been on the fence about Mister for a while and this might be my tipping point.

 

[suverman]

With MiSTer if you haven't bought it yet, I would wait for furrtek to release the neogeo core and the 64MB SDRAM specification. You might need the 64MB SDRAM to run 95% of the games (currently MiSTer uses a 32MB specification - not enough for the larger games.) Hardware-wise this might be the only time you will see such a major change in specification of the project. If you dont care about NG games it doesn't matter. CPS1/2 if and when implemented will not exceed 32mb.