Hey guys
I know I’m new to the forum but I’m not new to the hobby or even new to buying and selling online
I have over 20 years of experience
My approach to negotiations are built on the foundation of being honest, fair, straight forward, patient and understanding in order to build trust and satisfaction with whoever I deal with
I’ve already had a couple of pleasant transactions under my belt here too
It’s rare that I leave negative feedback to a user as I give every opportunity to remedy an issue with the person I’m dealing with
I also understand feedback is very important in our community as it helps us build trust with community members
We deal with large sums of money in transactions all the time with no protection to the buyer when sending via Paypal as Friends or Family so positive feedback is very important to the community
Unfortunately the experience with @thechop did not go down so well and left me at a net loss on my end
I first reached out to thechop when I saw his post on price check thread
I sent him a PM Asked if he was looking to sell Radiant Silvergun when he posted about it
Confirmed he wanted to sell
During negotiations I asked to have payment sent via Goods and Services
I pay the paypal fees
I pay the quoted shipping fees
Declare the full value on customs. I don’t ask sellers to lower the value so that I can save on fees and taxes
Asked to have the item fully insured to protect from lost, theft or damage so that we have peice of mind
Choose a good reliable courier company like DHL, UPS, FedEx
We both agreed on the terms!
I got the total from thechop and email to send funds his way
My part as a buyer was satisfied and completed
Things were going well up until payment was reached on his side
This is where the problems came in
There are always issues and problems that comes up but the ability to resolve them is very telling of a good buyer or seller
Being able to come to a resolution is what makes the experience positive or negative
thechop sadly did not handle the situation so well
I quickly received a message from thechop telling me that the money was on hold and asked me to reverse the transaction and see if I could request a refund
He panicked and told me he got the jitters and wanted to issue a refund because he didn’t like where this was going
At this point I’m puzzled as I’ve never had a seller I sent payment experience something like this before
Especially someone whose had a ton of transactions on other forums
I thought maybe it was an issue on my end with the amount I charged to my credit card. I thought the amount charged exceeded my purchase limit for a transaction. I wasn’t sure
I checked and it was processing which was normal on my end
I asked him several times to contact a live customer support for clarity on the situation so that we can better make an informed decision together. I don’t think he even did that as he never confirmed it with me
I checked on my side and I could not see a refund option either
So I quickly did some research while on my end and discovered the issue
Unforeseen by both of us I found that there was a 21 day hold on these funds
Due to Paypal’s policy on protecting the buyer there is a max of 21 days they hold on transactions. It would have been released after the 21 days was up. Paypal does this at times because of the account receiving the funds when there are irregularities or it was a first time they sold an item etc.
Prior to this he was blaming me for going the route of Goods and Services. I reminded him that the hold was none of our faults as we both did not expect this to happen
During this time thechop was very uneasy about everything. I told him I understood that this can be worrying and reminded him prior to the unexpected issue we had agreed on everything up until the incident. I didn’t twist his arm or force him to accept my terms. Everything was out in the clear
However I let him know that we both need to agree on how to remedy the problem. I made it very clear that if a refund was to be issued I would be at a loss as the conversion rate from British Pounds back to Canadian Dollars would hit me hard. I didn’t want that
If anyone is reading don’t think you would either if you can avoid it
When you send funds that aren’t your primary currency with Paypal they give you the option to choose who converts it. I chose my credit card as it was a no brainer. Their rates were much better than Paypal’s
During this time thechop did not offer any solutions other than worrying and complaining about the problem. He made it very clear that he didn't want to ship without having funds cleared. I knew he was uneasy so I tried my best to come up with a solution that was fair that could work for both of us.
I told him I would never ask him to ship without having payment cleared. That is standard practice and I understood that. However this case is special. Payment was cleared but due to Paypal Policy it was held for security reasons based off the seller’s account and not the buyer
Being more informed with this 21 day hold policy I took into consideration everything that I discovered during my research and offered a few solutions
Option 1: Wait for the funds to be lifted after the 21 day hold. This option doesn’t hurt him as the funds are already in his account. Aside from me having to wait 21 days longer I was fine with it as the outcome would be us both completing the transaction and getting what we both agreed on. It really sucks having to wait so long but no one is to blame for it. AND if the hold wasn’t lifted after the 21 days fine issue the refund without having to compensate as he would have at least tried to see the deal through.
Option 2: Issue the refund but please compensate me the difference. Thechop was very eager to want to cancel the whole deal. I understand the uneasy feeling as it can be very emotionally draining to some people. To me this option is unnecessary as all we had to do was wait and find out but I was open to it. In any transaction you can’t force people to sell or buy your things even if your halfway through there’s always a way out I believe but you have to both agree to the terms to break that contract
Option 3: Look into this whole shipping with Paypal thing as it’s verified with Paypal and they can track exactly where and when the item is delivered. This way Paypal has access to everything with their verified shipper. Release the funds sooner etc. It would be very hard for me to file a dispute when Paypal has real time access to tracking information. Like I said before I’m not going to ask him or force him to take this option but I put it out there as I was trying my best to salvage the deal. I even offered to pay the difference if we went this route.
During this time thechop agreed to waiting out the 21 days for the funds to be available. Even stating that he was worried that I wouldn't be happy having my funds sitting there that long. I told him I wasn't happy about the situation but I don't blame him for it.
Now here’s the dirty part of everything. Two days prior to the due date on when Paypal would release the hold on the funds, I received an e-mail notification that a refund was issued!
TWO DAYS shy of the due date where thechop would have had access to the funds it was then REFUNDED!
I was mind blown. I had no idea what was going on as I was anticipating to hear from thechop about shipping confirmation
I quickly checked Arcade Projects and was looking to see if thechop had sent me a message. NO MESSAGEs! No communication at all!
I noticed that he was last seen on the forum that day two minutes after my refund was issued. I didn’t think it was a coincidence
I was like this can’t be possible. Why would thechop issue a refund now so late close to the release date of the funds? It did not make any sense unless he had no more excuses wanting out of the deal
I did not jump to conclusions so I sent him a message and asked him what was going on as I am lost.
He explained to me that he forgot all about our deal and that the refund could have been due to him not providing shipping information on time so that could be why Paypal reversed the transaction
I was not happy. I'm pretty sure Paypal cannot reverse a transaction without a request from the buyer. So I contacted Paypal customer service directly and asked them to confirm three separate times and all three response from Paypal confirmed the seller had issued the refund.
Paypal pretty much confirmed that thechop lied to me about it. This is coming from an experienced seller on shmups and arcade otaku which he asked me to check his feedback
Like I mentioned before trust is a big when dealing with large transactions. Especially when they want you to send payment via friends and family with no protection
I followed up and asked thechop if he would honor our deal if I paid friends and family. I asked this question to see what he would say. I didn’t get an answer from him even though I knew he read it and he was browsing the forum. I had to send him another message to get him to finally respond
He went on about saying he would contact me when he got things collected. The red flag is that he was suppose to have it all packed up and ready to ship already. What’s this about getting it collected again?
At this point I asked him to be honest I uploaded the snap shots of my conversation with Paypal and time stamps of the refund.
He went on about blaming me for my financial loss that was due to his actions
Saying it was my fault that I used goods and services and the 21 day hold was due to me being suspicious. Now if he had actually looked it up or asked customer service they would have confirmed it was because of his account and his activities. He’s passing blame on me without doing any research jumping to conclusions and saying it’s too risky for him and that he never wanted to accept goods and services in the first place
My jaw dropped after reading that. I asked him again to confirm if he was the one who issued the refund. He finally came clean and said he did
I asked him to look at the photos I uploaded and he said he didn’t have time to click on them on his phone. I mean if you’re already reading the message it’s not hard to pull them up right there
He said he suspected my transaction wasn’t legit so the alarm bells went off for him so he had to issued the refund. Said he was trying to be nice about it but I got all Sherlock Holmes with him. What’s nice about being lied to and pretending you didn’t do something you actually did?
If you suspect the transaction is not legit why not ask Paypal about the suspicion? Why did you have to mislead me for close to 3 weeks and when time ran out you pretended that you knew nothing about it. Not only did I lose money I also wasted my time waiting too.
The worst part of everything is that he believes he did nothing wrong
As of now nothing has been resolved and he hasn't responded back to me yet
I know he's still browsing the forums
I just wanted to share my experience with the community and vent a bit
I do understand members here will have varying opinions and that’s fine
Everyone's experience is shaped differently
Key summary
I never forced him to do anything or accept anything
thechop wanted out of the deal and did so in a manner where it harmed me financially
Lied about his actions and tried to point blame solely on me
Believes he did nothing wrong
I know I’m new to the forum but I’m not new to the hobby or even new to buying and selling online
I have over 20 years of experience
My approach to negotiations are built on the foundation of being honest, fair, straight forward, patient and understanding in order to build trust and satisfaction with whoever I deal with
I’ve already had a couple of pleasant transactions under my belt here too
It’s rare that I leave negative feedback to a user as I give every opportunity to remedy an issue with the person I’m dealing with
I also understand feedback is very important in our community as it helps us build trust with community members
We deal with large sums of money in transactions all the time with no protection to the buyer when sending via Paypal as Friends or Family so positive feedback is very important to the community
Unfortunately the experience with @thechop did not go down so well and left me at a net loss on my end
I first reached out to thechop when I saw his post on price check thread
I sent him a PM Asked if he was looking to sell Radiant Silvergun when he posted about it
Confirmed he wanted to sell
During negotiations I asked to have payment sent via Goods and Services
I pay the paypal fees
I pay the quoted shipping fees
Declare the full value on customs. I don’t ask sellers to lower the value so that I can save on fees and taxes
Asked to have the item fully insured to protect from lost, theft or damage so that we have peice of mind
Choose a good reliable courier company like DHL, UPS, FedEx
We both agreed on the terms!
I got the total from thechop and email to send funds his way
My part as a buyer was satisfied and completed
Things were going well up until payment was reached on his side
This is where the problems came in
There are always issues and problems that comes up but the ability to resolve them is very telling of a good buyer or seller
Being able to come to a resolution is what makes the experience positive or negative
thechop sadly did not handle the situation so well
I quickly received a message from thechop telling me that the money was on hold and asked me to reverse the transaction and see if I could request a refund
He panicked and told me he got the jitters and wanted to issue a refund because he didn’t like where this was going
At this point I’m puzzled as I’ve never had a seller I sent payment experience something like this before
Especially someone whose had a ton of transactions on other forums
I thought maybe it was an issue on my end with the amount I charged to my credit card. I thought the amount charged exceeded my purchase limit for a transaction. I wasn’t sure
I checked and it was processing which was normal on my end
I asked him several times to contact a live customer support for clarity on the situation so that we can better make an informed decision together. I don’t think he even did that as he never confirmed it with me
I checked on my side and I could not see a refund option either
So I quickly did some research while on my end and discovered the issue
Unforeseen by both of us I found that there was a 21 day hold on these funds
Due to Paypal’s policy on protecting the buyer there is a max of 21 days they hold on transactions. It would have been released after the 21 days was up. Paypal does this at times because of the account receiving the funds when there are irregularities or it was a first time they sold an item etc.
Prior to this he was blaming me for going the route of Goods and Services. I reminded him that the hold was none of our faults as we both did not expect this to happen
During this time thechop was very uneasy about everything. I told him I understood that this can be worrying and reminded him prior to the unexpected issue we had agreed on everything up until the incident. I didn’t twist his arm or force him to accept my terms. Everything was out in the clear
However I let him know that we both need to agree on how to remedy the problem. I made it very clear that if a refund was to be issued I would be at a loss as the conversion rate from British Pounds back to Canadian Dollars would hit me hard. I didn’t want that
If anyone is reading don’t think you would either if you can avoid it
When you send funds that aren’t your primary currency with Paypal they give you the option to choose who converts it. I chose my credit card as it was a no brainer. Their rates were much better than Paypal’s
During this time thechop did not offer any solutions other than worrying and complaining about the problem. He made it very clear that he didn't want to ship without having funds cleared. I knew he was uneasy so I tried my best to come up with a solution that was fair that could work for both of us.
I told him I would never ask him to ship without having payment cleared. That is standard practice and I understood that. However this case is special. Payment was cleared but due to Paypal Policy it was held for security reasons based off the seller’s account and not the buyer
Being more informed with this 21 day hold policy I took into consideration everything that I discovered during my research and offered a few solutions
Option 1: Wait for the funds to be lifted after the 21 day hold. This option doesn’t hurt him as the funds are already in his account. Aside from me having to wait 21 days longer I was fine with it as the outcome would be us both completing the transaction and getting what we both agreed on. It really sucks having to wait so long but no one is to blame for it. AND if the hold wasn’t lifted after the 21 days fine issue the refund without having to compensate as he would have at least tried to see the deal through.
Option 2: Issue the refund but please compensate me the difference. Thechop was very eager to want to cancel the whole deal. I understand the uneasy feeling as it can be very emotionally draining to some people. To me this option is unnecessary as all we had to do was wait and find out but I was open to it. In any transaction you can’t force people to sell or buy your things even if your halfway through there’s always a way out I believe but you have to both agree to the terms to break that contract
Option 3: Look into this whole shipping with Paypal thing as it’s verified with Paypal and they can track exactly where and when the item is delivered. This way Paypal has access to everything with their verified shipper. Release the funds sooner etc. It would be very hard for me to file a dispute when Paypal has real time access to tracking information. Like I said before I’m not going to ask him or force him to take this option but I put it out there as I was trying my best to salvage the deal. I even offered to pay the difference if we went this route.
During this time thechop agreed to waiting out the 21 days for the funds to be available. Even stating that he was worried that I wouldn't be happy having my funds sitting there that long. I told him I wasn't happy about the situation but I don't blame him for it.
Now here’s the dirty part of everything. Two days prior to the due date on when Paypal would release the hold on the funds, I received an e-mail notification that a refund was issued!
TWO DAYS shy of the due date where thechop would have had access to the funds it was then REFUNDED!
I was mind blown. I had no idea what was going on as I was anticipating to hear from thechop about shipping confirmation
I quickly checked Arcade Projects and was looking to see if thechop had sent me a message. NO MESSAGEs! No communication at all!
I noticed that he was last seen on the forum that day two minutes after my refund was issued. I didn’t think it was a coincidence
I was like this can’t be possible. Why would thechop issue a refund now so late close to the release date of the funds? It did not make any sense unless he had no more excuses wanting out of the deal
I did not jump to conclusions so I sent him a message and asked him what was going on as I am lost.
He explained to me that he forgot all about our deal and that the refund could have been due to him not providing shipping information on time so that could be why Paypal reversed the transaction
I was not happy. I'm pretty sure Paypal cannot reverse a transaction without a request from the buyer. So I contacted Paypal customer service directly and asked them to confirm three separate times and all three response from Paypal confirmed the seller had issued the refund.
Paypal pretty much confirmed that thechop lied to me about it. This is coming from an experienced seller on shmups and arcade otaku which he asked me to check his feedback
Like I mentioned before trust is a big when dealing with large transactions. Especially when they want you to send payment via friends and family with no protection
I followed up and asked thechop if he would honor our deal if I paid friends and family. I asked this question to see what he would say. I didn’t get an answer from him even though I knew he read it and he was browsing the forum. I had to send him another message to get him to finally respond
He went on about saying he would contact me when he got things collected. The red flag is that he was suppose to have it all packed up and ready to ship already. What’s this about getting it collected again?
At this point I asked him to be honest I uploaded the snap shots of my conversation with Paypal and time stamps of the refund.
He went on about blaming me for my financial loss that was due to his actions
Saying it was my fault that I used goods and services and the 21 day hold was due to me being suspicious. Now if he had actually looked it up or asked customer service they would have confirmed it was because of his account and his activities. He’s passing blame on me without doing any research jumping to conclusions and saying it’s too risky for him and that he never wanted to accept goods and services in the first place
My jaw dropped after reading that. I asked him again to confirm if he was the one who issued the refund. He finally came clean and said he did
I asked him to look at the photos I uploaded and he said he didn’t have time to click on them on his phone. I mean if you’re already reading the message it’s not hard to pull them up right there
He said he suspected my transaction wasn’t legit so the alarm bells went off for him so he had to issued the refund. Said he was trying to be nice about it but I got all Sherlock Holmes with him. What’s nice about being lied to and pretending you didn’t do something you actually did?
If you suspect the transaction is not legit why not ask Paypal about the suspicion? Why did you have to mislead me for close to 3 weeks and when time ran out you pretended that you knew nothing about it. Not only did I lose money I also wasted my time waiting too.
The worst part of everything is that he believes he did nothing wrong
As of now nothing has been resolved and he hasn't responded back to me yet
I know he's still browsing the forums
I just wanted to share my experience with the community and vent a bit
I do understand members here will have varying opinions and that’s fine
Everyone's experience is shaped differently
Key summary
I never forced him to do anything or accept anything
thechop wanted out of the deal and did so in a manner where it harmed me financially
Lied about his actions and tried to point blame solely on me
Believes he did nothing wrong
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