WTB Wanted - Game Boards

[kuze]

The conversion carts for PGM1 are identical in terms of performance and bullets on screen as the legit Cave boards. I've owned a legit Ketsui PCB before and have played both conversion/legit all the way through.

The audio from them can be even better than on the single game boards too.

One problem is that you would have to kill a GOOD PGM1 game to make the conversions. Each one is only compatible with certain donor boards; there's some blog post online about it, but I'm too lazy to look for it.

If possible you should look out for EXISTING boots of these games, which often get sold for half of what Joerg charges for a new one. That way another game isn't being sacced.

If/when Darksoft releases a PGM multi-cart, it will be great because it will put an end to the conversions.

Also I hear there's a Knights of Valour mod with Street Fighter characters! Looks fun.

 

[Derick2k]

Hmmm... I can sacrifice a Knights of Valour 2 pgm cart as I have 2 of them to convert it to Ketsui, how do I got about doing this?

 

[kuze]

Hmmm... I can sacrifice a Knights of Valour 2 pgm cart as I have 2 of them to convert it to Ketsui, how do I got about doing this?

In short you can't unless you are a legit hacker, or have access to a dump of Joerg's ROMs. I don't think KoV2 is compatible either, I don't remember tbh. If you Google you can find partial instructions, but no one has done it other than Joerg AFAIK.

Keep in mind everyone hates this guy, Mitts and DS included (and for good reason, he steals others' work and tries to profit from it).

 

[rewrite]

Hmmm... I can sacrifice a Knights of Valour 2 pgm cart as I have 2 of them to convert it to Ketsui, how do I got about doing this?

KoVH is the only donor board option for DDP DOJ.

Ketsui/Espgaluda are:

KoV2 (not 9 dragons)
Demon Front
DDP2: Bee Storm
Martial Master
Killing Blade
Gladiator

For Ketsui and ESPGaluda you need to have decrypted versions of the 68000 programming rom. For whatever reason DDP DOJ doesn't need this and it's just burn roms and solder in place (I'm assuming it uses the same encryption as KoVH).

Stealing this info from another blog:

Chips needed :

1x 27C160 (the big UV-EPROM) program rom (decrypted in the case of Ketsui or EspGaluda)

4x 26L6420 Chips:
One on the first board (the rom that contains the text tiles and baground tiles) with the 27C160 UV-EPROM (that contains the decrypted 68000 program)
the 3 other 26L6420 are for sprites and are on the second board with the 29L3211 (that contains the music)
You can find the rest of the information (about the memory mapping for example) in the pgm.c driver commentaries from the MAME project.

26L6420 (SOP-44 64MBit) mostly everything graphic
29L3211 (SOP-44 32MBit) this one has the #1 Pin at high logic level (signal /WE)
this is for the music.

The SOP-44 are all connected on Pin #23 this is Vcc and should be 3,3V this conversion uses a cheap & lazy method of using a resistor in series from the 5V.
Why not using a 5V to 3,3V LDO Regulator ? it’s clean and still dirt cheap.
Wires should be AWG30 insulated wires, and please don’t jizz on the carts…
The other chips are CPLDs (you can use PALs or GALs) they could be programmed so you don’t have to do the rewiring by hand.

DDP DOJ wouldn't be difficult. But I don't know anything about romhacking, so no advice on how to decrypt Ketsui/Espgaluda

 

[rewrite]

In short you can't unless you are a legit hacker, or have access to a dump of Joerg's ROMs.

That is the single thing preventing everyone else from doing it. Popping off the 27C160, reading it, and dumping it for everyone else. The rest is there, with giant resolution pics to aid in the process.

 

[Derick2k]

Hmmm... I can sacrifice a Knights of Valour 2 pgm cart as I have 2 of them to convert it to Ketsui, how do I got about doing this?

In short you can't unless you are a legit hacker, or have access to a dump of Joerg's ROMs. I don't think KoV2 is compatible either, I don't remember tbh. If you Google you can find partial instructions, but no one has done it other than Joerg AFAIK.
Keep in mind everyone hates this guy, Mitts and DS included (and for good reason, he steals others' work and tries to profit from it).

Crazy stuff! I am sure there is enough talented people on this forum alone to get these conversions done. But then again, I am hoping DS makes a multi kit. In the mean time I would love to get a conversion of ketsui going, cant seem to source this game from anywhere at a reasonable price.

 

[kuze]

Oh for sure. The answer is a DS multi.

PGM is a hell of a platform, maybe even better than Neo Geo IMO.

 

[SEGASHIRO]

Oh for sure. The answer is a DS multi.

PGM is a hell of a platform, maybe even better than Neo Geo IMO.

Thanks for all the clarification Kuze. I patiently await for the DS PGM multi with the CAVE titles (I own the Xbox 360 versions)! Hell yeah.

 

[Derick2k]

Oh for sure. The answer is a DS multi.

PGM is a hell of a platform, maybe even better than Neo Geo IMO.

Thanks for all the clarification Kuze. I patiently await for the DS PGM multi with the CAVE titles (I own the Xbox 360 versions)! Hell yeah.

I wonder if DS will work on PGM multi next? Although I am super excited about the MVS multi, and have cash set aside to purchase it right away. I am eagerly awaiting DS next multi, either the F3 or PGM. Whatever it is, its a win win all around as you cant go wrong with his kits.

 

[colinmac]

@MissionFailed any chance of PM'ing me that thread? I know that the conversions have better audio quality than the original boards, but I've never heard about differences in bullet patterns or anything. I'll have a bit of spare PGM stuff here in a couple weeks and was thinking about doing the DDPOJ conversion myself out of curiosity.

few thread i have found. it looks like the cave PGM cart games, other than DDPII bee storm are conversion carts and not official releases. ...poo pooo.http://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29430&hilit=pgm+ketsui&start=100 (bottom of the page)

TLDR\

from http://www.world-of-arcades.net/Cave/Ketsui/Ketsui.htm

"It is known that the hardware of Ketsui and other, later CAVE games was made by IGS, and it is no coincidence that it is almost identical to the Poly Game Master system created by the same company. Nevertheless, CAVE released Ketsui, Do Donpachi DAI-OU-JOU and Espgaluda as well protected single board PCBs, instead of PGM cartridges, which had likely been illegally copied by chinese factories soon"

something on PGM cart glitching
http://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=20710&p=266630&hilit=pgm+ketsui#p266630

ESPGaluda PGM and graphic glitches
http://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=12581&p=163499&hilit=pgm+ketsui#p163499

expected Ketsui PCB, glitches and EPROM revisions
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9528&sid=66764bb15d352fc5388381f7ff65fa87

I'm still trying to find the post someone made about the Ketsui PMG cart having less bullets and disappearing bullets. it might have been on Shumps. still looking, but i think it has something to do with "sprite buffer overflow" or a "sprite limit"

I'll report back when i find it. wish i booked marked it. I'm usually better about doing so.

Hey look - I'm sort of famous lol!

I've previously bought the DDP DOJ slag-cart from Joerg, and have got PGM Ketsui I've bought from a forum member inbound. Both carts are horrid inside with lots of hot glue holding wires and links and messy soldering.

However, DDP runs perfectly - I've never even noticed a single glitch when playing with sprites or bullets or anything.

Ketsui is en route - I'll update soon, as I've played the PCB and the Mame conversion a lot.

If these carts could be pulled apart so we could get rom dumps for a multi - I'd happily sacrifice them to stop the sales of more chop-carts, as long as I didn't lose access to the games.

It's kinda weird finding out that Joerg is (actually much as I felt myself) not got much in the way of fans - I've not found much about how and where he has done the work - but the freeware SSD project for X2 should hopefully nip off that avenue. I bought an SSD too (!) but did kinda balance the cost resentment vs the work that went into it...

If only someone would build a proper hardware SH3 PCB which could run all the newer cave stuff !! Original PCB's are becoming rarer - I think a lot of collectors are starting to just hold onto them, as they know they'll be hard to get again... I don't condone piracy at all - but if something isn't done, these games will vanish and only be visible in Mame, which would be sad.

 

[rewrite]

If these carts could be pulled apart so we could get rom dumps for a multi - I'd happily sacrifice them to stop the sales of more chop-carts, as long as I didn't lose access to the games.

No sacrifice necessary, my friend. DDP DOJ is already easy to reproduce as long as your soldering skills are good. Ketsui is one of the two harder ones. Thankfully it should only take dumping the socketed eprom that's in there as it *should* be the only component with modified code, and the rest should already be in the MAME set.

On the chance, did you buy Ketsui from that gentleman on AO? I tried to with intent of dumping the rom but it was already spoken for.

 

[colinmac]

I did indeed. Was originally going to buy just his PGM motherboard, and order a Ketsui from Joerg, but he offered me a trade, so jumped. Hope I didn't scunner your deal, although this will work it out long term.

Quite happy to dump the rom - although I don't have a programmer, might pick up on up just so I can do it.

Am I right in thinking he has modified the ROM itself then ? - I ask as I also own an original DDP2, and got a eeprom burnt of the mame u8 rom file so I could upgrade the cart to 1.2 rather than my 1.0 which worked perfectly...

 

[rewrite]

Am I right in thinking he has modified the ROM itself then ?

Yes. The program rom has been decrypted. Every other rom should be identical to the MAME set from my understanding.

 

[colinmac]

Ok I'll have a look at this I think.

How do I know which rom contains the program code?

 

[Derick2k]

@rewrite & @colinmac - If you guys are doing this I am following right along. I want to convert my spare KoV2 cart to Ketsui, so please let me know if you guys need any help.

 

[rewrite]

Ok I'll have a look at this I think.

How do I know which rom contains the program code?

It's a 27C160 (the big UV-EPROM) It should be the only windowed rom on the board.

@rewrite & @colinmac - If you guys are doing this I am following right along. I want to convert my spare KoV2 cart to Ketsui, so please let me know if you guys need any help.

I've got to buy another eprom burner, mine bit the dust, but I'm definitely going for it. I'm not too awesome at soldering, so I have to practice a ton since it's mostly those tiny 44-pin flash memories.... But it'll happen.

Sorry to derail your thread. It seemed super relevant though.

 

[kuze]

There's a DDP on eBay right now and Sophia/Tops has a Ketsui in stock. Just figured I'd give you a heads up.

 

[Derick2k]

Sorry to derail your thread. It seemed super relevant though.

No worries, derail away, I got most of the games I wanted so far, just missing a few, I will get those in time. For now I am focusing on cleaning the vewlix cabs I just got from KC.

Maybe you guys want to start a new thread or section regarding game/pcb conversions, not sure if there is a section for conversions, just so that it gets more exposure?!

I have a couple of eprom burners/erasers so just waiting to see what the process is.

 

[SmokeMonster]

I highly recommend GTRetro87 at KLOV to anyone in need of X-Men or other Konami audio repairs. He not only recaps them but also sockets the audio sub-board and replaces the AD1868 DAC and op-amp underneath to make it a permanent fix. He's fast and affordable ($50 for everything a year ago), and a great person to deal with.


I picked up a dirt cheap X-Men 4-player board with audio problems last year and had it sent straight to him for repair. It worked out perfectly.

 

[kuze]

Ketsui cart:
http://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=33123