What's new

Franco23444

Student
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
162
Reaction score
73
Location
Durham,NC
I just had a quick look out of curiosity at Craigslist NC and it took me around 6 seconds to find multiple free Sony Trinitrons.

I don't know what area of NC you're in but I tried 3 different ones on Craigslist and all had free or nearly free CRT TVs.

Forget thrift stores and pawn shops. Nobody can be bothered to drag a 100lb crt TV to a shop for the sake of the $5 they might get for their trouble.

People offer them free on Craigslist because they want somebody to come and dispose of it for them. If they get no response, they literally dump them on the street.
It would be nice if you can send me a link :) I did manage to find a 32” crt tv for free and I’ll pick it up next week.
 

Franco23444

Student
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
162
Reaction score
73
Location
Durham,NC
Does a Guncon 2 even work with Time Crisis 3 on a 246? I thought TC3 on the 246 needed the gun I/O to work. I haven't heard of anyone playing it with a guncon 2 connected directly to it's USB port.

I play the game on my PS2 consoles using converted Time Crisis arcade guns and pedals. The game is identical to the arcade which is no surprise as it runs on the same hardware.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D4inp1dGN4


The only advantage to the using the arcade version is that it controls outputs for recoil.

I had to set my gun's recoil up with an Ne555 board to make it recoil once when I tap the trigger and full auto when I hold it down like this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DatfpMFmIcc


It's obviously better if the game controls recoil though. I just decided that, for me, it was worth that compromise to be able to play a bunch of different shooters on the same cab without the hassle of changing PCBs, I/O boards and gun tech every time.
I don’t think so, without some modifications to the guncon 2. I’m using the real Namco arcade gun with the recoil. And yes, I do have the gun I/O board hooked up to my system 246 using the usb plug. Since I’m using a consumer crt tv, I’m also using the Namco RGB to NTSC svideo converter board, which doesn’t have a composite output plug but I modified mine to have it. For sync, I also have the other vga plug with the Vsync and Vground cables connected to the I/O board. I have made a video about it on my YouTube channel:
View: https://youtu.be/DPbHEYtugog
 

Zebra

Professional
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
499
Reaction score
131
Location
New York
It's literally identical on the PS2. It's the only Time Crisis game I know of that wasn't upgraded or downgraded for the home release.

Time Crisis 1 on the PS1 is noticeably downgraded.

Time Crisis two has upgraded graphics on the PS2 although it still looks fairly similar.

Crisis Zone has updated graphics and looks quite different. Also the PS2 version uses a real light gun which gives it excessive flashing as a machine gun game. It looks like a Japanese wedding at times.

Time Crisis 4 on the PS3 has HD rendering of the same graphics. Even when output at 480p 4:3, it look noticeably better. It's worse overall though due to the inferior Guncon 3 which is not as good as the OMZ guns and lack of link play. Split screen always sucks.
 

Franco23444

Student
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
162
Reaction score
73
Location
Durham,NC
It's literally identical on the PS2. It's the only Time Crisis game I know of that wasn't upgraded or downgraded for the home release.

Time Crisis 1 on the PS1 is noticeably downgraded.

Time Crisis two has upgraded graphics on the PS2 although it still looks fairly similar.

Crisis Zone has updated graphics and looks quite different. Also the PS2 version uses a real light gun which gives it excessive flashing as a machine gun game. It looks like a Japanese wedding at times.

Time Crisis 4 on the PS3 has HD rendering of the same graphics. Even when output at 480p 4:3, it look noticeably better. It's worse overall though due to the inferior Guncon 3 which is not as good as the OMZ guns and lack of link play. Split screen always sucks.
I know :) there is no point on getting the arcade version of the game but I have it because I have a business where we would do DJ music events and I rent out games. It’s pretty nice and I get to get extra money from my arcade cabinets. Anyway you’re right, if you want the real arcade experience, try to get original hardware, if you don’t, get the cheaper option and still enjoy the game.
 

Zebra

Professional
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
499
Reaction score
131
Location
New York
I wouldn't say there's no point. Having the game control recoil is a meaningful benefit (at least it would be to me) and owning a 246 allows you to play other 246 games and not all of them are available on the PS2 in an identical form.

Vampire night, for example. The arcade version is EGA. The PS2 version only allows output in 480i. I really like Vampire Night. It's great for a home arcade as it allows 2-players on one cab. It's s blatant copy of House of the Dead but in many ways it's better.
 

Franco23444

Student
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
162
Reaction score
73
Location
Durham,NC
I wouldn't say there's no point. Having the game control recoil is a meaningful benefit (at least it would be to me) and owning a 246 allows you to play other 246 games and not all of them are available on the PS2 in an identical form.

Vampire night, for example. The arcade version is EGA. The PS2 version only allows output in 480i. I really like Vampire Night. It's great for a home arcade as it allows 2-players on one cab. It's s blatant copy of House of the Dead but in many ways it's better.
I agree with you, but since I have extra systems, I might as well put them to use. There is no point for me to have 5 tekken 4s and not use them. Luckily I had a chance to get the full wiring harness for cheap, but without the harness, it’s not worth setting it up. Plus with advances in technology, we can play the games though emulation at higher resolutions and soon, the PlayStation version on a lcd tv with a modern “light gun”( more like a camera gun 🙃)I do want to conduct a experiment and see if I can hook up a guncon controller as a substitute to the arcade gun, just for fun.
 

Zebra

Professional
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
499
Reaction score
131
Location
New York
I agree with you, but since I have extra systems, I might as well put them to use. There is no point for me to have 5 tekken 4s and not use them. Luckily I had a chance to get the full wiring harness for cheap, but without the harness, it’s not worth setting it up. Plus with advances in technology, we can play the games though emulation at higher resolutions and soon, the PlayStation version on a lcd tv with a modern “light gun”( more like a camera gun 🙃)I do want to conduct a experiment and see if I can hook up a guncon controller as a substitute to the arcade gun, just for fun.
You can definitely use the PS2 gun as almost all light guns use the same tech. It's the I/O that differs.

I use a Time Crisis arcade gun with a PS2 by connecting it to a Guncon 2 PCB instead of the arcade I/O. The gun itself is not modded (as it's just a photo diode inside).

The question is how does a 246 with Time Crisis 3 recognize a guncon 2 board. My guess it that it would not recognize it as an I/O board. The PS2 TC3 version has custom Guncon 2 drivers on the disc.

BTW, you can already play emulated versions with camera based guns on HD flat screens. You've been able to for years. It's just that none of them are as good as using a real light gun on a CRT display. Plus, none of the emulators play as well as real hardware for Time Crisis 1, 2, 3, or 4.

Time Crisis 5 was already PC based and since it's been cracked, it's the exception.

The best PC arcade gun solution for HD screens is the currently the "Twisted symphony method" (as he discovered it). I.e. You can use real Sega (or Namco) arcade IR guns (the ones with ten LED boards around the screen) with a PC by connecting it via a UHID from Ultimarc.

E.g. I'm. Using a Ghost Squad arcade gun to play Ghost Squad on the Dolphin emulator in this vid:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gx00X9qgzM


It could just as easily be a Time Crisis 4 gun. Those guns work on any display.

You can also use any positional arcade gun with emulators on any type of display:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-EdwvQJZlg&t=37s


There was an HD screen compatible gun for the PS2 called the EMS Topgun 3 but nothing beats a real light gun on a large CRT.
 

Franco23444

Student
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
162
Reaction score
73
Location
Durham,NC
You can definitely use the PS2 gun as almost all light guns use the same tech. It's the I/O that differs.

I use a Time Crisis arcade gun with a PS2 by connecting it to a Guncon 2 PCB instead of the arcade I/O. The gun itself is not modded (as it's just a photo diode inside).

The question is how does a 246 with Time Crisis 3 recognize a guncon 2 board. My guess it that it would not recognize it as an I/O board. The PS2 TC3 version has custom Guncon 2 drivers on the disc.

BTW, you can already play emulated versions with camera based guns on HD flat screens. You've been able to for years. It's just that none of them are as good as using a real light gun on a CRT display. Plus, none of the emulators play as well as real hardware for Time Crisis 1, 2, 3, or 4.

Time Crisis 5 was already PC based and since it's been cracked, it's the exception.

The best PC arcade gun solution for HD screens is the currently the "Twisted symphony method" (as he discovered it). I.e. You can use real Sega (or Namco) arcade IR guns (the ones with ten LED boards around the screen) with a PC by connecting it via a UHID from Ultimarc.

E.g. I'm. Using a Ghost Squad arcade gun to play Ghost Squad on the Dolphin emulator in this vid:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gx00X9qgzM


It could just as easily be a Time Crisis 4 gun. Those guns work on any display.

You can also use any positional arcade gun with emulators on any type of display:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-EdwvQJZlg&t=37s


There was an HD screen compatible gun for the PS2 called the EMS Topgun 3 but nothing beats a real light gun on a large CRT.
I’m going to try hooking up a gun con 2 to my system and see what will happen, there is a slight (slim) chance it might work. Maybe if I connect the sync to the composite plug on the gun con 2 as the arcade uses composite sync, but now that I think about it. I don’t think it will work with out some internal modifications. I did manage to play time crisis 3 on the PlayStation 2 and I must say, it has some drips in the frame rate when heavy explosions happen or there are too many enemies on screen. That doesn’t happen on the arcade version, maybe it’s due to the extra ram on the arcade pcb. Plus I have high hopes that the sinden light guns might work on arcade pcbs in the near future. I want to be able to play the arcade version of time crisis 3 on my 80” 4K tv lol!
 
Last edited:

Zebra

Professional
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
499
Reaction score
131
Location
New York
I've never heard that the 246 hardware has extra ram. The specs show the same cpu and cpu speed and the same amount of graphics memory.

It's possible that the two versions load in different places I guess. That might be what you're seeing. Or maybe just an age related issue with the PS2.

No hardware mod would be needed to use a Guncon 2. It connects to the same USB port as the arcade gun I/O. It's the drivers on the game disc that would need to be changed. The PS2 version has the drivers on the disc. The files are called "USB gun".

My assumption is that the 246 TC3 disc has different drivers for it's I/O. Maybe you could cut and paste the PS2 drivers to replace what's there on the 246 disc (with a name change to match the 246 drivers).

Apparently the 246 version is compatible with the Crisis zone I/O which uses a camera set up which works on any type of screen.

The EMS Topgun 3 is an HD screen compatible gun for the PS2 version. If you can still find one...

I have a CRT projector for large screen light gun gaming. I always feel that shooters feel wrong when you use the wrong type of gun tech.
 

Franco23444

Student
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
162
Reaction score
73
Location
Durham,NC
I've never heard that the 246 hardware has extra ram. The specs show the same cpu and cpu speed and the same amount of graphics memory.

It's possible that the two versions load in different places I guess. That might be what you're seeing. Or maybe just an age related issue with the PS2.

No hardware mod would be needed to use a Guncon 2. It connects to the same USB port as the arcade gun I/O. It's the drivers on the game disc that would need to be changed. The PS2 version has the drivers on the disc. The files are called "USB gun".

My assumption is that the 246 TC3 disc has different drivers for it's I/O. Maybe you could cut and paste the PS2 drivers to replace what's there on the 246 disc (with a name change to match the 246 drivers).

Apparently the 246 version is compatible with the Crisis zone I/O which uses a camera set up which works on any type of screen.

The EMS Topgun 3 is an HD screen compatible gun for the PS2 version. If you can still find one...

I have a CRT projector for large screen light gun gaming. I always feel that shooters feel wrong when you use the wrong type of gun tech.
Yep, the Namco System 246 has more ram compared to the PlayStation 2 ( but it’s due to the game developers on how much ram they will need.), that is why games like tekken 4 and others run much more smoothly and look better than the console versions. I’m not sure if it’s just me but when I play time crisis 3 on any version of the PlayStation 2s I got ( fat or slim), there appears to be more lag on places with heavy explosions and more enemies on screen, something that is barely present in the arcade version.
 

Zebra

Professional
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
499
Reaction score
131
Location
New York
I've had them running side by side here and they look identical to me.

The only scenarios where I see a difference in how smooth games run is where the 246 version runs at a different res like Vampire Night.

Where are you seeing extra ram in the 246 specs? According to these specs, they have the same amount of onboard memory. I don't see anything that would suggest superior graphics processing capability:

246 specs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namco_System_246

PS2 specs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2_technical_specifications
 
Last edited:

Franco23444

Student
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
162
Reaction score
73
Location
Durham,NC
I've had them running side by side here and they look identical to me.

The only scenarios where I see a difference in how smooth games run is where the 246 version runs at a different res like Vampire Night.

Where are you seeing extra ram in the 246 specs?
Better textures and a little bit sharper than the PlayStation 2 version on component cables, and it runs smoother in some levels, that’s pretty much it, I’m not sure if you have the arcade version to test it out, but this is from my perspective. I made this thread to see if it’s possible to play the arcade version of this game on a consumer crt, mostly because there isn’t a lot of information on this type of set up. I went ahead and bought all the components to make this work and it is possible. I really don’t care about the PlayStation 2 version. I wanted to experiment and hopefully provide some knowledge and info for any one who wants this set up or wants to swap out their non working arcade monitor with a consumer crt in their machine. This should also work with time crisis 2, in which I’m going to test out as well.
 

Franco23444

Student
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
162
Reaction score
73
Location
Durham,NC
The only scenarios where I see a difference in how smooth games run is where the 246 version runs at a different res like Vampire Night.
Also vampire night runs and looks identical to the PlayStation 2 port, it is not a low res game and it probably looks low res because it is not in interlaced mode, it’s probably set to non interlaced. The arcade version of vampire night has both non interlaced and interlaced video modes unlike Time Crisis 3 which is only set to interlaced mode. Kinda crazy right? The PlayStation 2 version is of course, set to interlaced mode.
 

Zebra

Professional
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
499
Reaction score
131
Location
New York
Also vampire night runs and looks identical to the PlayStation 2 port, it is not a low res game and it probably looks low res because it is not in interlaced mode, it’s probably set to non interlaced. The arcade version of vampire night has both non interlaced and interlaced video modes unlike Time Crisis 3 which is only set to interlaced mode. Kinda crazy right? The PlayStation 2 version is of course, set to interlaced mode.
Vampire Night on the PS2 (apparently) has a progressive scan mode but it doesn't work with the Guncon 2 attached, which makes it useless.

I think the arcade version of Vampire Night doesn't use real light guns or at least has an alternative for progressive scan monitors.

Time Crisis 3 is 480i on both. At least, I've never seen the game run in 480p anywhere but emulators.
 
Last edited:

Franco23444

Student
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
162
Reaction score
73
Location
Durham,NC
Vampire Night on the PS2 (apparently) has a progressive scan mode but it doesn't work with the Guncon 2 attached, which makes it useless.

I think the arcade version of Vampire Night doesn't use real light guns or at least has an alternative for progressive scan monitors.

Time Crisis 3 is 480i on both. At least, I've never seen the game run in 480p anywhere but emulators.
Really? I have got to try out and check if vampire night runs in 480p. The arcade version doesn’t run in 31kz, only interlaced or non interlaced 15khz and you’re correct, the arcade version uses a CCD camera setup like crisis zone and uses the same I/O with a different eprom on the board. Time Crisis 3 only runs in interlaced 15khz and uses both optical and CCD camera setups. Same thing with the console version. It runs in 480i. One difference I found between both versions is in the music. The console version sounds like the music has be remade mostly to fit the music from the rescue mission mode.
Edit: I tried and checked if vampire night runs in 480p and it doesn’t. It’s a 480i game.
 
Last edited:
Top