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How to identify if CPS2 has been converted

vholfx

vholfx

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Hey guys,

So there is this vendor where I live who's offering me CPS2 in all sort of state, original, phoenix and conversions. He prices them differently like originals being more expensive than conversions.

However, if I were to buy games from him, how could I know if I'm getting an original or a conversion? I'm under the impression that all conversions go though the phoenix process? I just don't have enough info, I'm just staring to read on the subject but wanted some input also.

Thanks!

Edit: Ok so if I'm reading correctly, all conversions go through the phoenix process, so I should see no battery and possibly wires around the board?
 
Conversions don't use original mask roms. If you see 27c322 or 27c160 roms in socket 12-20 then its a conversion.

Now that infinikey's are out, having a battery in place doesn't necessarily mean it's original.
 
Look for original stickers on the EPROM windows and the original big sticker on the case. They were properly stuck down with good adhesive, so if the corners are starting to unstick or peel up its probably a sign they've been removed at some point.
 
vholfx said:
Ok so if I'm reading correctly, all conversions go through the phoenix process, so I should see no battery and possibly wires around the board?
Click to expand...
that was true a few years ago, but is now no longer true.

Some originals with infinikey or other similar product will have no battery
Some conversions will have a battery.

Here is what an original looks like:
1068px-CPS2_B_board.jpg


Notice that the Q-Sound and Graphics ROMs are solid plastic with no window, no sticker and have the ROM label printed right no the chip... Those are original MASK ROMs. Also notice that the program ROMs all have official Capcom labels, those are original Program ROMs.


Here is a Conversion:

cps2_conv.jpg


notice how ALL of the ROMs have hand-made stickers. this is clearly a conversion.

Sometimes people will print nice looking stickers, and some people even have fake stickers that LOOK like the official capcom stickers... the dead give away here is the Q-Sound and Graphics ROMs though.



This is a "Pheonixed" PCB:

cps2_pheonix.jpg

This is half way between a conversion and an original.

Notice how it has the original Graphics and Q-Sound ROMs but non-original Program ROMs.
Before we had the ability to restore keys. this used to be the only way to "fix" a CPS2 with a dead battery. and some people even "Pheonixed" good, working, original PCBs just because they didn't want to worry about the battery.

The problem is that Pheonixed PCBs are not running original program data. the program ROMs have been modified to get rid of the copy protection. IMO these are not worth as much as a 100% original, but they're arguably worth more than a conversion. You can restore the original program Data, and you can restore the keys in order to make the code original and "un-pheonix" the PCB but most people that want a 100% original board and are willing to pay for a 100% original board want the original program ROMs with the original capcom stickers... So if someone is selling a pheonix PCB it's good to ask them if they still have the original program ROMs that they can send with it.

-------------

If you're just looking to PLAY a game that's 100% original, with restored keys there is 0 difference between a conversion and an original. But if you want 100% original just for the sake of it, then you'll want to make sure it has the original roms with original stickers.
 
Also add in your post @twistedsymphony that if you are going to Pheonix a board, it's OK, AS LONG AS you use fresh EPROMs and keep the originals (with label) safe, in case down the road you sell it or use a key to bring it back. The worst is seeing people peel off labels from factory EPROMs to refresh Pheonix data on them....
 
twistedsymphony said:
The problem is that Pheonixed PCBs are not running original program data. the program ROMs have been modified to get rid of the copy protection.
Click to expand...
Some boards will be burned with the phoenix roms (Noted by "phoenix edition" in the mame rom name) and some will be burned with the decrypted rom set from the CPS2 Rom Decryption Effort guys. The most noticeable difference is that it won't come up with a "CAPCOM PHOENIX EDITION" logo on boot.

The decrypted roms are 100% the same code as the original roms and are now prefered over the phoenix version. If you're buying phoenixed boards it might be worth asking what version was put on.
 
xtrasmiley said:
Also add in your post @twistedsymphony that if you are going to Pheonix a board, it's OK, AS LONG AS you use fresh EPROMs and keep the originals (with label) safe, in case down the road you sell it or use a key to bring it back.
Click to expand...
Really that should should be the rule anytime you want to change the code on the PCB. I keep the original ROMs even when I'm converting some crappy Quiz game to something else. On rare occasion I might overwrite but never unless I'm 100% sure that the code has been verified as dumped and that neither I nor anyone else would want that original ROM.

Velyks said:
The decrypted roms are 100% the same code as the original roms
Click to expand...
In some cases yes, but not in every case... there's no guarantee what's been flash to the ROMs other than the sellers word, for all you know they're running a hacked or modded version of the game they found.
There are plendy of CPS2 ROM hacks in the wild: Encrypted CPS2 ROM Hacks (and How to!) - Dimahoo All Chars, Progear Second Loop, etc.

There is of course a lot more information related to CPS2 ROMs and pheonixing and keys, and everything, but OPs question was about how to IDENTIFY if the game is original or not, so I provided information on how to do that.
 
Awesome info thank you!

I have a board with all Q-Sound roms original (no window) but all graphics ROMS with windows, so this is a conversion I assume? I take not all conversions need the Q-Sound ROMS replaced?

I can post pictures later when I get home.

EDIT: Sorry I'm not familiar with the boards and I assumed the graphics would be in the same place, I guess not, I added pictures.
 

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I don't know if I would call that a full on conversion, because it still has the daughter board with the original mask roms. It is quite possible that the graphics roms were bad and they simply burned new ones. The program rom stickers don't look like they've been tampered with either.
 
That's a repair job. Program ROMs are original, daughterboard is original, mask ROMs have been entirely replaced with EPROMs that have been concatenated to fit onto 27C322

Most likely the daughterboard and program ROMs were pulled off a battery damaged board and transplanted but the mask ROMs were toast
 
hello everybody

I have bought on original SSF2X with battery.
If one day, the battery is out of order, my game is suicided: OK
can I desuicide it with infinitykey, put a battery and get out the infinity key;
- if yes, where can I find a tutorial?
- if no, i prefer change battery because I don't know its age. I know i must change the battery: is it necessary to turn on the game 1 or 2 hours before change the battery? how many time have I. to switch the 2 batteries?

cheers
 
Yes you can desuicide with infinikey.

Once it is desuicided you just put a battery on. Turn the game on to load keys, turn game off and remove the infinikey. I would just leave the infinikey on and never worry about a battery again, but if you must have a battery ....this will work fine.

You don't have to leave the game on for an hour to change battery. Just turn it on to make sure it still works, then change battery. Batter change should take 5 minutes. Not sure how long the capacitor will hold the charge without a battery but it's at least 15 minutes from my experience, probably longer.
 
twistedsymphony said:
mthngn said:
If one day, the battery is out of order, my game is suicided: OK
can I desuicide it with infinitykey, put a battery and get out the infinity key;
Click to expand...
technically yes but I wouldn't recommend it.
if you want to revive and go back on battery you should use this method: https://arcadehacker.blogspot.com/2016/09/capcom-cps2-security-programming-guide.html
Click to expand...
thank you.

it is possible to install a battery on desuicided board ONLY with an Arduino? Not with a infinity key?
best regards
 
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twistedsymphony said:
mthngn said:
If one day, the battery is out of order, my game is suicided: OK
can I desuicide it with infinitykey, put a battery and get out the infinity key;
Click to expand...
technically yes but I wouldn't recommend it.
if you want to revive and go back on battery you should use this method: https://arcadehacker.blogspot.com/2016/09/capcom-cps2-security-programming-guide.html
Click to expand...
It is possible, but unless you are using hot air desoldering, there's a chance that you may corrupt the stored key when removing the InfiniKey PCB. I agree with twistedsymphony that for battery installs, arduino setup is best.
-ud
 
I wonder if conversions are worth more using original code and a battery, when i make games for my self i always put a battery on, silly really as decrypted roms are available i just like the look plus the thrill of being able to load the keys in with Arduino, i like the batteries present, to many years of changing them i guess and kacking it when ever it came go replacing them, there wasn't any come back in the old days one wrong move and it was a paper weight.

One thing i am suprised about though, i let my SFZ2 die the other day just to see how long it would take the board to drain with the battery off, i had the board on for 30 mins prior and it took just over 4 hours to die that was on a rev 4 board.
 
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