Chase HQ 2 Decrypted

[winteriscoming]

That's great info. I'll follow up if I think I need to borrow any hardware.

It's not clear to me how JVS is managed in the Windows launcher version.

@corey, in your experience, would it be possible and easy to route all JVS communication from this Windows launcher through a com port? With some simple changes to my Mega JVS, I could potentially have it do JVS over USB, but Sense would need to be ignored or otherwise simulated... that or ouputs need to be parsed out and output over a com port for the FFB translator.

I'm not sure when I will get a chance to experiment with this. I will need to set up a PC.

 

[corey]

on a ttx they use a rs485 to rs232 which also acts as the first device in the chain and handles the dips.

all ttx2 games communicate over com2 to the jvs device. so if you were to plug directly in to the ttx via a usb to serial or similar you would need to emulate the converter board as well

 

[obcd]

As corey is saying:

Taito hardware uses a plugin JVS adapter with it's own microcontroller that connects to the pc motherboard using the connectors that are normally used to connect the DB9 serial connector on a bracket. If I remember well, there is also a connection to the "case pins" Those have the "power on" and reset pins. The idea is probably to have the option to reset the pc motherboard or power it up with the microcontroller.

The windows launcher of which I have source code uses a technique called "dll injection" to launch a Taito game. It basically has a dll with system calls that replace the normal calls. With this, all system calls that are used to setup and handle the com port are replaced by custom ones. It uses "direct input" (part of directx) to get the controls of a joystick and creates jvs compatible data with this. When the game reads the comport, it receives this data from the dll. So, basically you launch the dll injector program that launches the game program.
If I could find the game somewhere, I could test if it works with this launcher and pass the source code of it to anyone interested.
The pc spec's are not impressive, but I had to use a small (50bucks) low end passive cooled nvidia graphics adapter, or it couldn't maintain it's expected framerate. (That was with wacky races) Not sure what the problem was with the buildin Intel graphics. The original taito hardware uses xp embedded. This is basically xp with all unneeded modules removed. I do think they use a read only setup so that you can't damage the file system if you cut the power without proper shutting down.

Some taito games are hacked differently, and the JVS driver code is patched out. This taito games can also be controlled with a keyboard, so the JVS is stricktly seen not needed. It's obviously that by patching out the JVS, force feedback is gone as well.

 

[torakai]

I recently bought a Chase HQ 2 machine, that sadly seems to have broken in transit (or had an intermittent fault). I can only get video output through the onboard graphics but not the ATI card, I have checked and power is going to the card molex but the fan doesn't spin, I have also tried it with another X+ compatible card and still nothing, so I am thinking it may be something to do with the AGP port. I am posting here because as a last resort, I thought I may be able to run the decrypted game on a PC. Is there a Chase HQ 2 version that I could just plug the existing USB from the JVS IO in the cab into the PC as a swap in replacement for the X+?

Thanks for your time,

Tora

 

[nem]

Chase HQ2 doesn't seem to be all that hardware dependent. Here you can see it paired up with a TX2:

L A game sale

I've run that exact same version (2.0.6JP) on my X+ without any issues.

Anyway, I would definitely try it on a regular PC with a JVS card installed and see what happens.

 

[bobbydilley]

> Is there a Chase HQ 2 version that I could just plug the existing USB from the JVS IO in the cab into the PC as a swap in replacement for the X+?

Just as a bit of a warning, you should never plug the USB end from a JVS IO into a normal USB port. Although the connectors are the same the connections inside are very different and it could damage either the IO board or the PC.

Like nem said above, you should be able to place the JVS card inside a normal computer and have it work that way

 

[torakai]

Thanks for this. Oh, so you're running a decrypted version on the X+? Excuse me I am new to this, by JVS card do you mean take the IO card that is in my X+ (picture attached) and put it in a regular PC?

 

[torakai]

Thanks for the heads up bobbydilley, that actually clarified what I just typed as you were posting haha. I'll be sure not to plug the USB into a regular PC USB port and use the JVS IO on a regular PC. I am excited now, hopefully I can get this working!

 

[bobbydilley]

As an alternative that Taito case looks fairly standard to me (someone that knows more about taito may prove me wrong though).

You could probably find a generic motherboard as close to the original as possible (same cpu and chipset) on eBay and just swap it in

 

[torakai]

> You could probably find a generic motherboard as close to the original as possible (same cpu and chipset) on eBay and just swap it in You could probably find a generic motherboard as close to the original as possible (same cpu and chipset) on eBay and just swap it in

Yeah, good shout, I am going to do some continuity checks on the MB and see how dead the AGP port it is. If I can't salvage it, then it would be great to just switch out the MB, would save another 400 quid on a CHQ2 X+

 

[Zebra]

You could just play it in Teknoparrot and use your choice of PC, GPU, USB race wheel etc.

You can add a JVS port to a your PC too, or just wire the original controls to an Apac, UHID or Arduino if you wanted a USB connection.

Chase HQ 2 works perfectly on my 10-year old workstation laptop with a Quadro K5000m. It's not a particularly challenging game in terms of PC hardware requirements (like most arcade games from that period).

My old laptop has no issue running Mario Kart arcade GP DX, Initial D, After Burner Climax, Raw Thrills Batman driving game, Sonic racing etc.

There's no advantage to using original hardware for PC based arcades once they work right in Teknoparrot as you're still using "original hardware". It's not like emulation. It's just a loader that let's you configure your own controls.

 

[bobbydilley]

@'Zebra Is it possible to route real JVS traffic from Chase HQ 2 on teknoparrot to a real IO? I thought generally TP didn’t support this?

Really interesting to know about the fact that your old laptop runs TP properly - I’d never got into it as I didn’t have a new PC but I might just do that now!

I believe there is some emulation going on with the Lindbergh games to pass Linux + the graphics pipeline over, so quite a few of the games don’t run amazingly well, but I agree all other TP games probably run better than they originally did

 

[Zebra]

There is no hardware emulation in Teknoparrot for any PC based arcades including Lindburgh yellow or red. Everything runs natively. The experience is indistinguishable.

Where some games have elements that are still a WIP, it's usually minor stuff like LAN support which they're still working on.

They're quick to tell you it's an "arcade loader", not an emulator in those circles. It's basically just a patch to make games load without looking for dongles or getting stuck on I/O missing error messages. It also adds X-input support and mouse support (for gun games).


In terms of using a JVS I/O controller, some games have the option to use the original JVS in config. If it's one that connected to a PC via Ethernet then this would probably be simple. Some require additional RS-485 ports.

There are tutorials for adding an RS-485 serial port to your PC and making a JVS input. I've read some posts from people saying their PC then recognized the JVS board as a joystick in Windows.

I have a JVS board but I haven't tried it myself yet. When I read that it got recognized as a joystick, it suddenly seemed like more hassle than it's worth when my USB input boards like APACs and UHIDs work just fine with arcade controls.

 

[torakai]

> You can add a JVS port to a your PC too, or just wire the original controls to an Apac, UHID or Arduino if you wanted a USB connection.

Thanks for that, of course! I should have thought of that, definitely another option. Here's a pic of the machine. It has all the original pedals, stick and steering wheel, I think the seat has been switched out for a Crazy Street version but otherwise they are the same.

 

[nem]

Seat is indeed from Thrill Drive.

I haven't seen that sideart before.

You could just play it in Teknoparrot and use your choice of PC, GPU, USB race wheel etc.

Do you get FF with Teknoparrot?

 

[bobbydilley]

> There is no hardware emulation in Teknoparrot for any PC based arcades including Lindbergh yellow or red. Everything runs natively. The experience is indistinguishable.

This is not technically correct, things like the keychips and baseboard in the Lindbergh are high level emulated.

> It's basically just a patch to make games load without looking for dongles or getting stuck on I/O missing error messages.

It's far far more than a 'patch'. budgieloader.exe for example is a comparability layer like WINE that translates the Linux calls the games make to something your computer running windows understands and in some way converts the graphics calls from the original graphics card inside the system to your modern PC, which you could class as emulating Linux - although not to the same extent as a traditional emulator. As well as this it emulates the IO Board (which is not as simple as just a com port like in Ringedge games) and the keychip. This is incredibly clever, but if you've ever used a virtual machine on your PC you'll see that it doesn't always run as smoothly as if it was natively installed

I do agree however that for the most part it's probably indistinguishable even for Lindbergh games, and things like Ringedge games (Operation Ghost) literally require no patching or anything to run, and in that case it will be exactly the same (or faster probably in some circumstances). I still however prefer to play on original Lindberghs

> If it's one that connected to a PC via Ethernet then this would probably be simple.

If you're talking about the fast IO cards, these are not ethernet it's an RJ-45 connector connected straight to the PC's memory or something like that. It will not work if you plug it into your actual ethernet slot. Same way that JVS won't work if you plug it into an actual USB slot, and I wouldn't reccomend doing either as you risk damaging your PC or the board.

> There are tutorials for adding an RS-485 serial port to your PC and making a JVS input. I've read some posts from people saying their PC then recognized the JVS board as a joystick in Windows.

Your PC would recognise the JVS board as a joystick in Windows if you're running some software that converts the JVS protocol into a Virtual Joystick (which I know reaver has made), but windows won't just magically recognise it as a joystick by accident. It's similar to how my JVSCore software works.

> I have a JVS board but I haven't tried it myself yet. When I read that it got recognized as a joystick, it suddenly seemed like more hassle than it's worth when my USB input boards like APACs and UHIDs work just fine with arcade controls.

If you can get Teknoparrot to use your real JVS board (which I've actually read multiple times isn't supported anymore in teknoparrot, but could be wrong), it'll probably behave a bit more like the original arcade machine. By converting JVS -> DirectInput -> JVS again windows is likely to add in fuzz and deadzone which may affect the original controls slightly. But I agree it's probably more hassle than it's actually worth!

> @nem Do you get FF with Teknoparrot?

Yeah it works with boomslangz ffb arcade plugin which watches the memory and does FFB. I can't see how accurate it is as I suspect the guy that made it just fiddled around with the feeling of the wheel until he thought it was about right. As we don't know how the actual FFB boards react to different forces it's hard to simulate exactly.

 

[torakai]

The side art is quite strange, it has a very obvious drawing of Ethan Hawke and Tyrese Gibson from the Fast And Furious series (neither of whom are in the game) with Nancy in the BG haha.

 

[Zebra]

In order to use a JVS controller for a windows PC based arcade game, either drivers must exist, or they aren't needed at all. I.e. Once you install the drivers for your RS-485 pci express card, your JVC controller is recognized in your Windows devices menu as a plug in n play.

My bet would be on the latter as standardization is the direction the whole arcade industry has been going in. They no longer make their own hardware or operating systems. JVS itself is a universal standard. Developers don't even make their own game engines anymore. Custom drivers for each game would seem like a waste of effort. I can't see any custom driver in the game folders.

I'll post a correction to the above if I find differently when curiosity gets the better of me and I finally install my RS-485 card and try my JVS controller.

In terms of Teknoparrot compatibility, the loader itself has no JVS options. It's an option in the games config files. My assumption is that it turns off the portion of their "compatibility layer" which stops the game looking for the JVS I/O when it loads. I.e. Teknoparrot doesn't need to add compatibility as it was already there. You just stop blocking it.

I can't say I fully understand how Linux based arcades are handled in Teknoparrot. I can see it using something called Budgieloader.exe and steamchild.exe. Maybe it works the same way as Steam which allows PC games to run on either Windows or Linux. Or maybe it's like some stand-alone cracked PC based arcade games which use something like VM ware.

Either way, it's not hardware emulation. A "compatibility layer" probably describes it better. The only part that could be considered emulation is the I/O interface and security dongle as software is used in place of hardware for those. The CPU, GPU, HDD, Ram and sound etc are all native so you have none of the glitches, missing frames, lag etc you find in emulation.

 

[Zebra]

Seat is indeed from Thrill Drive.

I haven't seen that sideart before.

You could just play it in Teknoparrot and use your choice of PC, GPU, USB race wheel etc.

Do you get FF with Teknoparrot?

Yes, there is force feedback in Teknoparrot but I'm not sure if that would apply for the games original force feedback controller. I'm not saying it wouldn't either. I just haven't tried it.

Connecting your cabs pots and ffb motor to the controller pcb from a Logitech ffb wheel should be fairly straight forward (if your cab uses a DC motor for ffb). That's what I'd do but I don't like hassle when I switch between games from different developers.

Chase HQ 2 is an ok game but it's not good enough to be the only game in a home driving cab. You'll almost certainly want to add Mario Kart Arcade DX, Daytona Championship, Sega Rally 3, Batman, Initial D etc + all the racing games outside Teknoparrot.

There is merit to wiring your wheel and ffb to be universally compatible....

 

[bobbydilley]

You're idea that a RS-483 PCI express card would appear to windows as an input device is completely wrong. I challange you to find me a device that does this. They simply show up to windows as a serial device, nothing more and so the computer without a driver/software can't handle that. Also the way you talk about all IOs as group is a little naive, the JVS in Lindbergh is handled completely differently to the JVS in ringedge to the FAST IO in Taito hardware and all the games talk to them directly using custom libraries, and not through some windows input api. I suggest you actually research how it's done, rather than speculate.

> I can't see any custom driver in the game folders.

It's talking down a serial port which is in user land, you don't need drivers for that - the library that talks JVS (AMLib for SEGA) will be statically linked into the game exe.

You're getting confused between teknoparrot, which emulates JVS and the game specific config files from things like Operation Ghost which allow you to turn of JVS and use direct input as that's what they used to develop the game in. Most games in teknoparrot use the JVS emulator from teknoparrot, which hooks the com port and so won't allow you to use a normal JVS IO out of your serial port. Some games may work down a serial port if they don't require teknoparrot to run or ignore the fact that JVS isn't there normally, but as there isn't an option in teknoparrot to not hook the com port it's no where near as easy as just connecting an IO board in.

"steamchild.exe" is the thing that handles multiplayer btw.

I do agree with what you're saying but, in my opinion any software that has to sit in between the original game to allow it to work on different hardware, is in effect emulation (although not full hardware emulation as most people have come to take as the defacto 'emulation'). The fact software sits in between the system calls will cause lag on the original game, although your computer is probably new enough that it can translate those calls fast enough for it not to be an issue / you not to notice. Lots of teknoparrot lindbergh games have graphics glitches that I've seen. Also consider how you're playing the game on hardware it wasn't intended for, although most things will work out fine - different graphics cards etc. will have slightly different characterists and so it won't be 'exactly' the same as playing on the original hardware in terms of slowdowns / speed but I am obviously being very picky there.

You're general merit I agree with though, there will be no where near as much lag/glitches as true emulation (probably unnoticable / none for most games).

> ffb motor to the controller pcb from a Logitech ffb wheel should be fairly straight forward

This is very bad advice, all motors are different. You connect the 90V massive DC FFB motor in an arcade cab, to the tiny 24v dual motor control board from your logitech g27 wheel and you're gonna blow the control board. Not at all straight forward, have a look at the massive heat syncs present on an arcade ffb board. There was a project a while ago which gave you some circuits and converter boards you could make to step up the voltage / current to allow you to do that though.

In terms of using the original FFB board, it's again different for all games as they don't handle FFB exactly the same. Some games do FFB out of the serial port, and so you may be able to just connect the original FFB board to that, but then again TP might patch out the FFB checks on the game to get it to boot, and so the FFB signal may then be turned off.

Also I've realised I'm talking a lot on a very old post, so I'll be quiet now - thanks everyone for listening