Namco 246 wavy lines 15khz

[Kujako]

What kind of monitor are you using anyway?

Wells Gardner 25" CGA that's in my Neo Geo MVS cabinet. Also tested on my little 9" PGM and an old 17" VGA LCD.

Just got a 256, and so far it's working much better. From everything I've been reading, the 246 systems were just really temperamental about 15khz output. So going to write it off as a lost cause and sell off the 246 and 256 "super". I didn't pay much for either of them, and had to do some repairs on both. So not a lot of lost love there. But since I have a SYS2X6 USB dongle, I figure I should get one working system and leave it at that.

Still need to take it apart, clean it and check for faults. But so far soo good.

 

[nem]

The Capcom IO is known for outputting lower voltages, you can't run a Net/GD-DIMM equipped Naomi with one for example (only carts).

That's because of the onboard DC to DC converter for +3.3V. However, +5V and +12V are just passed through. System 246 / 256 only needs these two voltages.

 

[jassin000]

Thanks @nem I just assumed being a JVS system it wanted 3.3.
Should have known better than to assume, been in the JAMMA world long enough to know few PCBs need -5v.

 

[Bluechalk]

Hey everyone,
I have a quick question I haven’t been able to find an answer to so I was hoping you might be able to help me. I have a Time Crisis 4 deluxe and I want to replace the projectors with an LCD screen but when I plug in the VGA from the game to an LCD no picture pops up. I was wondering if you know why that is and what I can do to fix it? Your help is much appreciated thank you.

 

[Kujako]

Hey everyone,
I have a quick question I haven’t been able to find an answer to so I was hoping you might be able to help me. I have a Time Crisis 4 deluxe and I want to replace the projectors with an LCD screen but when I plug in the VGA from the game to an LCD no picture pops up. I was wondering if you know why that is and what I can do to fix it? Your help is much appreciated thank you.

What dip switch settings are you using? Just because it's outputting via a HD15 connector doesn't mean it's "VGA". It may be running CGA. Also, which projector/LCD? Different models will have different limitations as to what sort of video input they can support.

These days, I run the output through an OSSC to upscale to HDMI output.

HOWEVER! Since we're talking about Time Crisis 4, how are you planning on using the guns? The sensors for the guns are typically mounted in the CRT bezel of the arcade units. So not sure how you would get that working via a projector.

 

[Bluechalk]

What dip switch settings are you using? Just because it's outputting via a HD15 connector doesn't mean it's "VGA". It may be running CGA. Also, which projector/LCD? Different models will have different limitations as to what sort of video input they can support.

These days, I run the output through an OSSC to upscale to HDMI output.

HOWEVER! Since we're talking about Time Crisis 4, how are you planning on using the guns? The sensors for the guns are typically mounted in the CRT bezel of the arcade units. So not sure how you would get that working via a projector.

Hey Kujako,
Would the dip switch make the difference? They’re all set to off right now and there are 4 dip switches. Also, there are sensors surrounding the screen so I believe I can switch out the screen for an lcd tv. I’ve seen other TC4 deluxe like that. I’ve tried both a computer monitor and lcd tv with vga connections but no image pops up. The projector does say RGB and not VGA but I always assumed it was the same thing? I’m guessing now that might not be the case. I’ve attached some pictures. Thanks for your help.

 

[Kujako]

@Bluechalk little hard to see, but it looks like switch 3 is in the off position in the first picture. This would set it to 15khz CGA. Setting it to ON will change the output to VGA 31khz. 2 & 4 should also be on, to adjust the output voltage and sync type.

• 1 off=Game mode, on=test mode
• 2 off=3v video output, on=0.7v video output
• 3 off=15khz video, on=31khz video
• 4 off=composite sync, on=h/v sync

For use with a VGA (31k) monitor, use off,on,on,on

And you're right, if you can get the video to output to a supported video mode you can swap in a LCD since you have the gun sensors etc (assuming you have the controller board, which I think you do as I see the cable for it).

 

[Franco23444]

Time Crisis 4 is a 15khz 480i game. It’s not a 31khz 480p game. I have one and I debunked the 31khz rumor. To get the game to work on an lcd, you will need a converter to convert the 15khz signal to something the display will accept. Those cheap Chinese EGA to VGA boards will do the trick but the image quality is crap. if you just want to play and don’t care about the image quality and want to use something affordable, then get the Chinese converter pcb, another option is to get a vga to component video converter and use that if your display has component video inputs. Here’s a video of my setup with a lcd ips monitor, just to note, I’m using the OSSC.

View: https://youtu.be/Ll8bVY2gsJ8

 

[tiff_lee]

Those cheap Chinese EGA to VGA boards will do the trick but the image quality is crap.

I'll take a punt are you referring to the GBS8200 boards? Have you used one with the ESP12 (GBS Control) mod as apparently they make it an extremely good and cost effective scaler

 

[Franco23444]

I'll take a punt are you referring to the GBS8200 boards? Have you used one with the ESP12 (GBS Control) mod as apparently they make it an extremely good and cost effective scaler

I haven’t but I heard that they are excellent upscalers with the gbs control mod. I will test it out myself one day but I’m pretty happy with the OSSC

 

[tiff_lee]

I haven’t but I heard that they are excellent upscalers with the gbs control mod. I will test it out myself one day but I’m pretty happy with the OSSC

oh yeah of course OSSC was/is one of the benchmarks, what I was getting at is not to write them off as cheap Chinese without considering the GBS control (obviously in its stock form, yeah its not particularly decent and a lot of untapped protentional).

I've got a GBS and D1 mini in a parts box I should really put it together, one feature I like the sound of is the seamless transition from 240p to 480i without losing sync.

@Bluechalk i'd recommend looking up "GBS control" heaps of hits on google and there is a thread on here somewhere. Basically like $30 in parts will see you good.

 

[Kujako]

Time Crisis 4 is a 15khz 480i game. It’s not a 31khz 480p game. I have one and I debunked the 31khz rumor. To get the game to work on an lcd, you will need a converter to convert the 15khz signal to something the display will accept. Those cheap Chinese EGA to VGA boards will do the trick but the image quality is crap. if you just want to play and don’t care about the image quality and want to use something affordable, then get the Chinese converter pcb, another option is to get a vga to component video converter and use that if your display has component video inputs. Here’s a video of my setup with a lcd ips monitor, just to note, I’m using the OSSC.

View: https://youtu.be/Ll8bVY2gsJ8

Thanks for the clarification. Forgot that it was a 15khz only game. Can definitely recommend the GBS controller setup as a low cost alternative to an OSSC etc (I have both along with some others in various setups). Most upscalers should work, but latency might be an issue here.

 

[Bluechalk]

Thanks for the clarification. Forgot that it was a 15khz only game. Can definitely recommend the GBS controller setup as a low cost alternative to an OSSC etc (I have both along with some others in various setups). Most upscalers should work, but latency might be an issue here.

Thanks for all your help. I’ve gone ahead and purchased an ossc to see if that

Time Crisis 4 is a 15khz 480i game. It’s not a 31khz 480p game. I have one and I debunked the 31khz rumor. To get the game to work on an lcd, you will need a converter to convert the 15khz signal to something the display will accept. Those cheap Chinese EGA to VGA boards will do the trick but the image quality is crap. if you just want to play and don’t care about the image quality and want to use something affordable, then get the Chinese converter pcb, another option is to get a vga to component video converter and use that if your display has component video inputs. Here’s a video of my setup with a lcd ips monitor, just to note, I’m using the OSSC.

View: https://youtu.be/Ll8bVY2gsJ8

Time Crisis 4 is a 15khz 480i game. It’s not a 31khz 480p game. I have one and I debunked the 31khz rumor. To get the game to work on an lcd, you will need a converter to convert the 15khz signal to something the display will accept. Those cheap Chinese EGA to VGA boards will do the trick but the image quality is crap. if you just want to play and don’t care about the image quality and want to use something affordable, then get the Chinese converter pcb, another option is to get a vga to component video converter and use that if your display has component video inputs. Here’s a video of my setup with a lcd ips monitor, just to note, I’m using the OSSC.

View: https://youtu.be/Ll8bVY2gsJ8

Thanks for all your help everyone. I’ve gone ahead and purchased a ossc to see if that would work. Franco, can you tell me what AV source and input format you used to bring up the picture and if you had to do anything else? So far I haven’t been able to make a picture appear. It’s my first time using an ossc. Thank you.

 

[Bluechalk]

Thanks for all your help. I’ve gone ahead and purchased an ossc to see if that


Thanks for all your help everyone. I’ve gone ahead and purchased a ossc to see if that would work. Franco, can you tell me what AV source and input format you used to bring up the picture and if you had to do anything else? So far I haven’t been able to make a picture appear. It’s my first time using an ossc. Thank you.

I’ve attached a picture of the controller with all the various inputs. I’m not sure what I need to run it on.

 

[Bluechalk]

I’ve attached a picture of the controller with all the various inputs. I’m not sure what I need to run it on.

This is also how I have it connected. I believe it’s AV3 but no picture is showing up. Can it be the lcd tv I’m using?

 

[Franco23444]

The OSSC is very finicky when trying to use the AV3 vga port. It mostly tries to look for a 240p signal but the game runs in 480i. What I do is press the RGB button multiple times until the OSSC screen flickers between 240p to 525i. Then press line multi mode then press #1 and video should appear. It’s extremely finicky, I know this will sound annoying but I would recommend you get the cheap ega to vga (or blue HDMI variant) converter boards for convenience. You can still use the OSSC if you would like to capture your gameplays in high resolution so it’s not a total waste of money. Just one huge thing to note, unless your display is VA panel or a tv, the OSSC doesn’t play nice with IPS or TFT monitors, in other words, it causes screen burn. Something the cheap boards don’t do.

 

[Bluechalk]

The OSSC is very finicky when trying to use the AV3 vga port. It mostly tries to look for a 240p signal but the game runs in 480i. What I do is press the RGB button multiple times until the OSSC screen flickers between 240p to 525i. Then press line multi mode then press #1 and video should appear. It’s extremely finicky, I know this will sound annoying but I would recommend you get the cheap ega to vga (or blue HDMI variant) converter boards for convenience. You can still use the OSSC if you would like to capture your gameplays in high resolution so it’s not a total waste of money. Just one huge thing to note, unless your display is VA panel or a tv, the OSSC doesn’t play nice with IPS or TFT monitors, in other words, it causes screen burn. Something the cheap boards don’t do.

Okay, I tried pressing the rgb button multiple times but the screen never flickered to 480i I’m a bit confused as to what to do still. I also have tried a ega to vga board but the only picture that shows up is discolored and in a 4:3 aspects ratio. However, I have seen videos of people playing TC4 in widescreen so I’m not sure why I can’t reproduce that. Do I have to mod the ega to vga board as stated in the comments above?

 

[Franco23444]

You have to press the RGB button multiple times but it can be quite frustrating. To use the EGA to VGA converter board properly (without modifications), you need to change around the clamp settings, I forgot the exact values they need to be put in but I’ll update you when I find them. For the widescreen look, your display has to be set to 16:9 mode, in your displays menu, there should be something labeled “aspect ratio” or something similar to that, originally the arcade version of the game was made for 4:3 displays but the PlayStation 3 version is in 16:9.

 

[Kujako]

This is also how I have it connected. I believe it’s AV3 but no picture is showing up. Can it be the lcd tv I’m using?

When you say no picture, are you getting the OSSC test bars? Should look like this...

If you're not getting that, then there is an issue with the signal to the LCD (what LCD screen are you using?).

Then on the remote, to select the RGBs input it's button 3 (1 is the SCART input and 2 is the YpBpr).

If you get the grey test bars, you can press the menu key to check the current input and output configuration. Mine has worked fairly reliably, but I did have to twiddle with the settings a bit. Now I switch it out between inputs for my superguns, consoles, etc to run on my Vewlix.

I also have tried a ega to vga board but the only picture that shows up is discolored and in a 4:3 aspects ratio. However, I have seen videos of people playing TC4 in widescreen so I’m not sure why I can’t reproduce that. Do I have to mod the ega to vga board as stated in the comments above?

That is indeed the aforementioned GBS-8200. It will work out of the box (not well, but OK). There is an open source project that makes it MUCH better if you're up for some light soldering and programming an arduino.
https://github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-control

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmfR0XI5czI


The GBS-8200 should also show a test pattern with no input.

 

[Bluechalk]

When you say no picture, are you getting the OSSC test bars? Should look like this...

If you're not getting that, then there is an issue with the signal to the LCD (what LCD screen are you using?).

Then on the remote, to select the RGBs input it's button 3 (1 is the SCART input and 2 is the YpBpr).

If you get the grey test bars, you can press the menu key to check the current input and output configuration. Mine has worked fairly reliably, but I did have to twiddle with the settings a bit. Now I switch it out between inputs for my superguns, consoles, etc to run on my Vewlix.


That is indeed the aforementioned GBS-8200. It will work out of the box (not well, but OK). There is an open source project that makes it MUCH better if you're up for some light soldering and programming an arduino.
https://github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-control

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmfR0XI5czI


The GBS-8200 should also show a test pattern with no input.

Thanks for your help! I finally got it to work with the ossc. Would you happen to know if there’s a way to make the image widescreen?