What's new

How to get the pixel/dot clock of an arcade game for the OSSC

Wow, I DO see a difference, but weirdly enough, I think I like the generic look more, it fills the square!

Please post your settings, I'll try them both on my OLED and take similar pics to post. I can do TMNT or anything else you want. Let's get some comparisons. '

Do a post without the scan lines, I guess I'm not 100% sure of what I'm seeing here, are the pixels just smaller (ie sharper)?
 
@XtraSmiley
No need to worry about the square being filled or not. That's just my scanline settings. You can make them literal perfect squares if you want assuming it's dialed in correctly. The big thing I've learned about sample rate is that it's more about where each pixel lines up on the screen rather than the shape of them so much. Too low sample rate will get you pixels too far apart and outright missing information. Too high will cause overlap. I believe this is because in a sense "too much" information was gathered as seen in the pictures above.

Here's a great video I found explaining sample rate:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLmB1qcXT4Q


Here's another photo to show a misaligned sample rate:
S4290147.JPG


It's not the shape that's so important here but where the pixels are placed. There's supposed to be a clear black gap between each vertical line. You can see it correct on the left and right side, but the middle is all messed up because the sample rate is too high there and it's putting additional blue and green pixels where none should exist. A correct SR would fix that and make it completely uniform.

Here's my settings I'm using. I'm on a 2 player Japanese PCB but that may not matter. You may need to slightly adjust your sample rate differently than mine but it should be very close if it's not exact. I used the cross pattern in the test menu of the game to help dial it in properly since it does a good job showing the flaws especially when the scanlines are on.

S4290132.JPG
S4290131.JPG
S4290130.JPG


By the way, to clarify. Although I'm passionate about getting pixel perfection for my games, that's me. If other people want to use other settings that aren't "pixel perfect" or whatever, that's fine. I certainly don't wanna sound preachy about it. It's video games, just have fun :)
 
Last edited:
Not all man, this is great information! I have both a US and Japanese TMNT, so let me pull them, pull out the HAS and OSSC and test this out. I'll give you my thoughts as well!
 
in my opinion it looks too CRISP and perfect and more importantly missing actual information. the artificial scan lines always look bad in my opinion. again, opinion as i like deep dive discussions and tweaking settings myself. i also tend to use the generic settings, in the sense the source is left alone, but it is all subjective, "perfection".

pixel art was original made to take into account these errors, and artificial scan lines make it worse and in some ways "un correct" the look. a good example of this is color dmd for pinballs and the different modes that make it look bad vs some nice phosphor burning dmds. i only play on cabs though, so i tend not to obsess on faking the look.
 
@XtraSmiley
No need to worry about the square being filled or not. That's just my scanline settings. You can make them literal perfect squares if you want assuming it's dialed in correctly. The big thing I've learned about sample rate is that it's more about where each pixel lines up on the screen rather than the shape of them so much. Too low sample rate will get you pixels too far apart and outright missing information. Too high will cause overlap. I believe this is because in a sense "too much" information was gathered as seen in the pictures above.

Here's a great video I found explaining sample rate:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLmB1qcXT4Q


Here's another photo to show a misaligned sample rate:
S4290147.JPG


It's not the shape that's so important here but where the pixels are placed. There's supposed to be a clear black gap between each vertical line. You can see it correct on the left and right side, but the middle is all messed up because the sample rate is too high there and it's putting additional blue and green pixels where none should exist. A correct SR would fix that and make it completely uniform.

Here's my settings I'm using. I'm on a 2 player Japanese PCB but that may not matter. You may need to slightly adjust your sample rate differently than mine but it should be very close if it's not exact. I used the cross pattern in the test menu of the game to help dial it in properly since it does a good job showing the flaws especially when the scanlines are on.

S4290132.JPG
S4290131.JPG
S4290130.JPG


By the way, to clarify. Although I'm passionate about getting pixel perfection for my games, that's me. If other people want to use other settings that aren't "pixel perfect" or whatever, that's fine. I certainly don't wanna sound preachy about it. It's video games, just have fun :)
I love how it looks! Did you get to these numbers by trail and error or by any sort of math formula? I have to do the same with a few PCBs:

PGM
X-Men
Kickle Cubicle
Solomon's Key
Killer Instinct
Dyna Blaster
Outzone
Kiki Kaikai
Kicker
Legend of Kage
Battletoads
 
I love how it looks! Did you get to these numbers by trail and error or by any sort of math formula? I have to do the same with a few PCBs:

Math with a bit of trial and error as well. For example I checked the release date of TMNT and compared it to other games around the time with known clocks. I took a guess at 6.00MHz for TMNT and after using the cross pattern to really dial it in, it turns out my TMNT is 5.99MHz. If you can get the dot/pixel clock then use the math in my first post, along with a bit of adjusting possibly and you can get every pixel in exactly the right place.

It's really something to see the image go from out of sync to perfectly dialed in. I used 4:3 generic for years not realizing just how much I was missing out on. It wasn't until I was tweaking the Sega Genesis for makeshift dithering effects when I decided to actually go optimal mode instead. It was a total .. game changer. Sorry I couldn't help it XD
 
If the flat panel is locked to 60hz and you try to play Taito F3 which is 57hz, what happens? I'm guessing you get screen tearing?

Unless scalers nowadays (and your monitor) support VRR output and it outputs at the 57hz? That would be cool.

Maybe consider a nice CRT, maybe even a 50inch rear projection crt TV if you need a big screen.
 
Last edited:
If the flat panel is locked to 60hz and you try to play Taito F3 which is 57hz, what happens? I'm guessing you get screen tearing?

Unless scalers nowadays (and you monitor) support VRR output and it outputs at the 57hz? That would be cool.

Maybe consider a nice CRT, maybe even a 50inch rear projection crt TV if you need a big screen.

The F3 is an interesting one. It will work just fine on the OSSC with most games. How the OSSC works it's magic to make it work though, I'm not sure. You do need to perform a mod to the OSSC for that board specifically but it's an easy mod imo and works great.

The only game off the top of my head that has issues is Riding Fight when it swaps resolutions the screen goes black for a moment. To my knowledge, this can be solved with a frame-buffer but I don't want lag so I play that one on CRT.

I actually have MANY CRTs as well heh. I use both a CRT and OLED for my retro gaming depending on the game and my mood. I've also been putting a lot of work into the OLED quality setup because as we all know, the CRTs are dying and heavy and I'm not getting any younger so I'm planning for the future of my gaming setup and spine lol.
 
Sounds like you know what you are doing :D

I have no clue on scalers myself but have seen a lot of videos about the new retro tink 4k which looks good.

In my mind, if the scaler output and TV panel both suppprt VRR then that is surely the best you can hope for?

I love the way you can run F3 games in groovymame on a VRR monitor at 57hz. But does any scaler support VRR output yet? Not even sure the new tink 4k does as it seems to be locked to 4k60 or 4k50.
 
OK, so... I tried TMNT (Japanese 2 player ROMS), and first, I don't have your exact same settings options, maybe I need to update my OSSC, but when I did put in what you had, the middle is all blurry while the edges are super sharp. I also get flickering pixels at 5x with 1920x1200 as well as 256x240 optim. settings.

What FW are you running on your OSSC an also, can there be differences in PCBs I wonder? There shouldn't be, right? Maybe it's my LG OLED not liking to resolution? I'm running a C9 so it's sort of older.

I didn't get this sharp like yours, but I DEFINITELY see a difference now. When I tried your settings the edges were sharp as shit, much sharper than the generic settings.

Oh one more, on your "here's another photo to show misaligned" what is that setting on? I'd like to see some bars like that to mess with it.
 
Interesting topic.

Does anyone know if Sega Mega Play works well with an OSSC ?

I've tested in 256x224, let OSSC default profile, turned “Allow TVP HPLL2x” option to Off, moved “Analog sync Vth” option to 146 mV to get something displayed, but it’s still instable.
What would be the more accurate settings to try to get this hardware stable ?
 
@Paranoid_Andy can you detail the OSSC mod and settings necessary for the Taito F3 capture?
Have you installed the latest Beta fw ?

It seems it's more stable, no more sync issue with most of boards.

Details there : https://videogameperfection.com/forums/topic/ossc-v1-xx-series-beta-firmware/

The hardware mod to install it is explained in the link (removing a resistor and installing a wire between TVP7002 and FPGA). Red LED won’t work after the modification, but equivalent indicator is now encoded into the green LED.
 
I've done a few tests (I use Vega Jr. supergun, LG C2 42" OLED TV, Genesis 1 RGB cable and OSSC 1.6 with 1.06 Beta fw) :

IMG_0121.JPG
CPS-1

IMG_0122.JPG
Banpresto PCB (Denjin Makai 2)

IMG_0123.JPG
Sega System 18

IMG_0124.JPG
PGM

IMG_0126.JPG
Namco System 2

I don't happen to get Sega Mega Play to sync well, and AtomisWave doesn't sync at all.
 

Attachments

  • 1696134130-img-0126.png
    1696134130-img-0126.png
    21.4 KB · Views: 84
  • 1696134130-img-0124.png
    1696134130-img-0124.png
    26.3 KB · Views: 76
  • 1696134130-img-0123.png
    1696134130-img-0123.png
    25.3 KB · Views: 83
  • 1696134130-img-0122.png
    1696134130-img-0122.png
    24.9 KB · Views: 75
  • 1696134130-img-0121.png
    1696134130-img-0121.png
    24 KB · Views: 78
Last edited:
All these games already sync with the OSSC in generic mode, were you able to dial things in like the OP did? If so, post those settings please.
 
I usually let output default settings in generic 4:3, I've installed the latest Beta fw to get Sega Mega Play to sync, but no success.
I've had sync issues with Green Beret PCB, Sega System 24 and Atomiswave in 15 kHz as well.
 
I usually let output default settings in generic 4:3, I've installed the latest Beta fw to get Sega Mega Play to sync, but no success.
I've had sync issues with Green Beret PCB, Sega System 24 and Atomiswave in 15 kHz as well.
I think most people do exactly what you do.

The point of this thread is that there’s actually more precise settings that get a better picture.

The generic settings generally do work for everything.
 
OK, so... I tried TMNT (Japanese 2 player ROMS), and first, I don't have your exact same settings options, maybe I need to update my OSSC, but when I did put in what you had, the middle is all blurry while the edges are super sharp. I also get flickering pixels at 5x with 1920x1200 as well as 256x240 optim. settings.

What FW are you running on your OSSC an also, can there be differences in PCBs I wonder? There shouldn't be, right? Maybe it's my LG OLED not liking to resolution? I'm running a C9 so it's sort of older.

I didn't get this sharp like yours, but I DEFINITELY see a difference now. When I tried your settings the edges were sharp as shit, much sharper than the generic settings.

Oh one more, on your "here's another photo to show misaligned" what is that setting on? I'd like to see some bars like that to mess with it.

@Paranoid_Andy can you detail the OSSC mod and settings necessary for the Taito F3 capture?

Sorry for my late reply. I thought this thread was pretty much done being replied to so I hadn't checked in for a little while. @XtraSmiley The setting I was in was the Color Bleed Check in the 240p Test Suite for SNES. As for the blurry middle that should mean that you're VERY close to having the proper Sample Rate. You probably just need to make some tiny fractional adjustments. Also yes I'm using beta firmware 1.6.

@BroadwayJose Sorry for the delay as well. This is the mod that I performed to get the F3 working: https://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=OSSC_AV3_use_AV1_RGB_mod
As for my settings, at the time I used Generic 4:3 with the settings mentioned on the page above. However when I have time I intend to attempt to dial it in with optimal settings if I can.

I'll be keeping a better eye on this thread from now on since I see there is still interest :)
 
Have you made any progress towards figuring out how to dial in a specific game?

I've been trying to get barman forever (stv) going on my vewlix. I was using the taito scaler from the JAMMA kit but it looked bad and was chopping off the left edge of the image.

I bought an ossc 1.6 and built harnesses to hook it up to the cab, upgraded the firmware. It refuses to even show an image of this game until I found and manually programmed in some settings recommended for Saturn. Afer seval hours of working this out I have an image but it's WORSE than the taito scaler. It's chopping off the right edge of the image instead of the left edge and it has this terrible noise in the image. The actual scalled image looks pretty terrible also.
 
Back
Top