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CPS1 Multi. Official Thread

jassin000 said:
Its really something of a philosophical question when stated like that...
"Is the slowdown crucial/integral to the game play?"
On the surface the answer would seem to be NO, its "just less slow down".

Ok so let me ask you this... Have you ever played Metal Slug 2 Turbo hack MVS?
Plays really good right? Way better than the original? Removing that slowdown totally changes pacing/action of the game.
Everything becomes more frantic because bullets also do NOT slowdown.

What's the problem with my example?
How do we know the play testers/designers didn't place the amount of bullets on-screen based on the slowdown present.
If they did anticipate this and balanced the game accordingly, removing that slowdown is very much breaking the original vision/presentation.

When you view the world as black & white you are left with a clear answer...
Its 1:1 to the original in every single way, or its not PERIOD.
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Yes, your example is very valid, as shmup fans often discuss and debate this exact thing with ports of arcade games where the "slow down" is inaccurate, causing a different game experience.

That being said, I think @Jorel81 was asking if the normal games would run faster, as in be too fast, like when you could overclock a PC in the old days with the "turbo" button and gams would move too fast. A different problem than just removing slow-down from a game.
 
XtraSmiley said:
shmup fans often discuss and debate this exact thing with ports of arcade games where the "slow down" is inaccurate, causing a different game experience.
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Heh... I love the ports of In the Hunt on both Playstation and Saturn.
However both are inaccurate to the arcade, and in fact both even have different slowdown from one another.
 
jassin000 said:
Its really something of a philosophical question when stated like that...
"Is the slowdown crucial/integral to the game play?"
On the surface the answer would seem to be NO, its "just less slow down".

Ok so let me ask you this... Have you ever played Metal Slug 2 Turbo hack MVS?
Plays really good right? Way better than the original? Removing that slowdown totally changes pacing/action of the game.
Everything becomes more frantic because bullets also do NOT slowdown.

What's the problem with my example?
How do we know the play testers/designers didn't place the amount of bullets on-screen based on the slowdown present.
If they did anticipate this and balanced the game accordingly, removing that slowdown is very much breaking the original vision/presentation.

When you view the world as black & white you are left with a clear single answer...
Its 1:1 to the original in every single way, or its not PERIOD.
Click to expand...
I was just asking for clarity. I’m not saying it should be one way or the other. I think anybody here who might be interested in this multi is fully aware that some games were designed with slow down in mind. I was just asking how these games are running on the multi.

So here’s my next question. When Capcom released the 12mhz A Boards, was part of the reason to eliminate slow down on older games when paired with the newer 12mhz A boards? Does anybody know? And here’s another philosophical question for you. When you were a kid and you sat down at a cabinet to play some Street Fighter 2 would you have known if the operator paired that B and C board with a 12mhz A board? That’s an interesting question I think.

I’m not making a statement, or putting anything any way other than just asking for clarity. Because a while back in this thread (or another thread i dont remember) there was some discussion about the accuracy of this multi versus the accuracy of an FPGA core. Do we know exactly which games run differently on a 12mhz board? I bet somebody does!

Again, I just want to know, and personally I plan on getting some sort of switch solution for my set up. I’m hoping somebody comes up with one and might possibly be willing to sell it. Because if I wasn’t interested in 100% accuracy, I don’t know that I would be here.
 
Jorel81 said:
When Capcom released the 12mhz A Boards, was part of the reason to eliminate slow down on older games when paired with the newer 12mhz A boards?
Click to expand...
No, was never intended to be retroactively used... It was to support new releases, one of the biggest being SF2:CE (WW ran on 10mhz).
 
jassin000 said:
No, was never intended to be retroactively used... It was to support new releases, one of the biggest being SF2:CE (WW ran on 10mhz).
Click to expand...
Well that’s a bit of a bummer. By the way, out of curiosity, what CP1 games have the level of slow down that Metal Slug 2 has?
 
Jorel81 said:
what CP1 games have the level of slow down that Metal Slug 2 has?
Click to expand...
I'm struggling to name any game on any system with that level of slow down (why it made such a good example)...
Maybe Gradius 3 on SNES?
g3bubble2.jpg
 
jassin000 said:
I'm struggling to name any game on any system with that level of slow down (why it made such a good example)...
Maybe Gradius 3 on SNES?
Click to expand...
Yeah thats pretty bad Gradius 3 on the snes…I’m just trying to know more about this stuff.
 
ShootTheCore said:
Capcom did officially re-release some 10mhz games on the 12mhz hardware, such as the Strider and Daimakamira Japan Resale versions. MAME runs the 68000 CPU at 12 mhz with those ROM sets to ensure better accuracy.
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I had a feeling, i think i saw that posted in the donor compatibility thread…those are some good games. Robot ninjas and monsters and stuff. Bad ass.

I wonder if that was because, they were only manufacturing the 12mhz boards at the time and still had demand for Strider and Daimakamira, or if somebody at Capcom was thinking they could go back and clean up some of the slow down in some of the earlier games…or both…I know that’s kind of a stretch.
 
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jassin000 said:
No, was never intended to be retroactively used... It was to support new releases, one of the biggest being SF2:CE (WW ran on 10mhz).
Click to expand...
The manual suggests otherwise:
 

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jassin000 said:
Ok so let me ask you this... Have you ever played Metal Slug 2 Turbo hack MVS?
Plays really good right? Way better than the original? Removing that slowdown totally changes pacing/action of the game.
Everything becomes more frantic because bullets also do NOT slowdown.

What's the problem with my example?
How do we know the play testers/designers didn't place the amount of bullets on-screen based on the slowdown present.
If they did anticipate this and balanced the game accordingly, removing that slowdown is very much breaking the original vision/presentation.
Click to expand...

Not a great example. Turbo doesn't actually stop slowdown from happening. It slows down at the exact same places as the original, it just doesn't drop as many frames.

http://daifukkat.su/blog/archives/2015/03/30/its_turbo_time/
 
Nimmers said:
The manual suggests otherwise:
Click to expand...
Nice catch!
Yea, I mean I can't read anything but the image suggests "if you install the board on an original this is how the DIPs are set".
This is batshit crazy!

As I mentioned the ONLY games you can easily perceive the speed differences in are CE/TE.
So why would the CE manual suggest you do something to alter that (game play)?

Did Capcom not know (ie they knew the game would run, but were unaware of the differences)?
How could they not, the FGC easily spotted it a long time ago.

Did they just not care (about differences introduced by mismatching)?
I have to assume this, its the only explanation and its shocking to me.
 
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jassin000 said:
Nice catch!
Yea, I mean I can't read anything but the image suggests "if you install the board on an original this is how the DIPs are set".
This is batshit crazy!

As I mentioned the ONLY games you can easily perceive the speed differences in are CE/TE.
So why would the CE manual suggest you do something to alter that (game play)?

Did Capcom not know (ie they knew the game would run, but were unaware of the differences)?
How could they not, the FGC easily spotted it a long time ago.

Did they just not care (about differences introduced by mismatching)?
I have to assume this, its the only explanation and its shocking to me.
Click to expand...
This is just my opinion so grain of salt:

I think these were viewed and marketed as machines that made profit. To make a profit, all they need to do is be reliable. Nobody was thinking about competetive play, esports, accuracy or any of that.

Looking at the market in Australia it looks like when the distributor got all their new shiny Champion Editions, they grabbed all their old long boards and sent them to location and kept all the dash boards as spare parts.
 
Yeah no one cared about frames and how they affect combos back then. That's because Street Fighter 2 literally created the problem when it was made and it took years for anyone to notice how frames affected combos.
 
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