Ziggy Cheetos Dust
Champion
CV1000D Multi! NOT A BOOT CHAT THREAD - Formerly: A huge project is approaching....
- Thread starter rewrite
- Start date
No worries, there will be gerbers and a BOM and pick and place file, so you can just order the board from JLCPCB. Pre-populated even for a bit more. Outside of that, a cheap programmer, some FPC cables, and uhhhh, oh yeah, a CV1000D boot.I think for other than a relative handful of people there’s a bunch of us who would be interested in this but have no idea how to actually acquire what’s needed. Hopefully some generous soul expands upon @rewrite s great work and explains things for the rest of us CV1000less plebs.
Again, way more credit to @buffi and @alamone for their brilliant work in figuring out how the CV1000 works to begin with. And @kasaki for also being brilliant. Cobbling something together out of all that is the least impressive thing in the bunch.
Ziggy Cheetos Dust
Champion
Thank you talented people. A project to look forward to.
I dunno if I agree about that. Removing flash and soldering FPC cables to tsop48 footprint is definitely a lot more complex than the rom removal for a CPS2 multi.
Pretty easy to fuck up if you don't know what you are doing.
It can be done mostly safely, but unless you've done flash replacement before I would not attempt it.
As an example, I need to used a microscope to solder tsop48 safely. It does not sound like a simple install, so I think the cps2 comparison is very silly.
I guess good to clarify that it needs to handle tsop48 nand and nor flash, which the real cheap ones wont do. But something like the Proman should be sufficient.
well, if u send this dude the stuff for the multi hes gonna sell them so its really no different. and hes probly gonna sell it for profit too, not like hes running a charity over there. so instead of doing a backdoor deal, ur just doing another back door deal from another person.
kasaski
Professional
Ive been using the xgecu t48 with the appropriate nor and nand flash adapters for my experimenting with success, so programming wise the price is pretty affordable
In the realm of programmers this or the XGecu T56 are cheap!
I think you're a little lost here. It may have paid to read the rest of the thread. I will clarify though, no worries.
1) Not sending anyone anything. It will be posted on github, open-source. Anyone with a computer can find it and be responsible or find it and be irresponsible.
2) Some weird deals where you make everyone swear a blood oath beforehand about how you'll never speak its existence isn't the same as normal commerce. Least not as far as I've experienced it. eBay/Walmart/Kroger all just take my money and give me goods. There are no strings, no gaslighting, no ridiculousness. Just hey, we have this for sale, and I go "cool, I'll buy it" and everyone acts normal.
Edit: I now see how what I wrote did not convey what I meant for it to convey. It's like 2am, so it came out a little crooked, ha.
The context I MEANT for that to be in was that it is non-destructive of the (not in this case) original hardware, not that it was the same level of ease as the CPS2 multi.
But even then you can easily mess up removing non-socketed roms from a PCB if you don't know how to desolder, or don't have the right tools.
I think that it's in people's best interests to be honest with themselves about their abilities at the moment and to not do things they know how to do, and find a friend or someone local who does know how to do these things to help them out. Same reason I don't suggest the average person change their headgasket.
Oh wow, $74 can't be beat, that's great.
kasaski
Professional
Just want to continue on rewrites point, this will definitely NOT be amateur friendly, and never will be. Regardless of whatever solution comes up, you will be required to remove and solder 0.5mm pitch components on expensive PCBs (even the bootlegs!). Be realistic with your ability. Anyway, theres no product yet and theres a long road of prototyping ahead of us.
While I'm yet to mess up and doing everything within my ability to minimise soldering on these pcbs, Im fully expecting to break something at some point. Thats the risk of playing around with these things. Im just having fun working on something that interests me, sharing whatever I discover and work out
While I'm yet to mess up and doing everything within my ability to minimise soldering on these pcbs, Im fully expecting to break something at some point. Thats the risk of playing around with these things. Im just having fun working on something that interests me, sharing whatever I discover and work out
West
Grand Master
As many have said already this is incredibly cool to see being developed. I know there's still a long road ahead but some form of CAVE multi is a dream so cheers to all those working towards it.
But think about how much more metal it would be to shop at Walmart if you had to sign a blood oath in the checkout line. They'd probably sell your DNA or something afterwards.
---
Only vaguely related anecdote, but it sums up my feeling on things like this:
I shared a custom Street Fighter 6 marquee here, told people they were free to download and print it, have fun.
Someone took that file and started offering it for sale on eBay or something, I forget. Someone asked me if I was upset or wanted to do a takedown etc. They were selling my work!
I said nope, anyone who downloaded it for free was going to need to pay to have it printed anyways, if there's a one stop option (especially if they're cutting it for you) then great. It's win win, and I'm as happy for them to see a couple bucks off it as I am Office Depot or whatever.
I dunno how the people involved feel, but if seems to me if the bootleg people offer the multi it's kinda similar.
XtraSmiley
Legendary
I think the big hope is that Link takes your guys' hard work and just creates a PCB that is incorporated, meaning not an add on, but rather just a multi-PCB that just works.Just want to continue on rewrites point, this will definitely NOT be amateur friendly, and never will be. Regardless of whatever solution comes up, you will be required to remove and solder 0.5mm pitch components on expensive PCBs (even the bootlegs!). Be realistic with your ability. Anyway, theres no product yet and theres a long road of prototyping ahead of us.
While I'm yet to mess up and doing everything within my ability to minimise soldering on these pcbs, Im fully expecting to break something at some point. Thats the risk of playing around with these things. Im just having fun working on something that interests me, sharing whatever I discover and work out
IF however, someone just wants to work on a super-rare CAVE PCB, you can easily do it after watching some tutorials on YouTube, I recommend my recent one, which sadly currently only has two likes, but really, it's only b/c there isn't a love button.
kasaski
Professional
It was the ram. I swapped 1000b ram onto a 1000d, loaded up pinksweets and now its booting up fine. At least we have some direction now. Updated the table with the new information
Genius.
Now to read up and understand bankswitching on NOR and NAND flashroms. Then it's just a matter of re-routing the PCB some, incorporating the RTC chips, and off we go.
Even so, it's nothing that someone who installs the ribbon cables on various HDMI console mods couldn't achieve. 0.50 spacing TSOP legs are small, but not so small an advanced hobbyist or something couldn't manage it. Heck, cell phone shop guys (the real ones, not ones that just swap entire boards) work on far smaller pieces.
Lemony Vengeance
Champion
This post is 100% the reason why I used the language “saccing”. Removing TSOP roms is not the same as attaching a CPS2 multi, and soldering fine pitch SMD is not something anyone without expertise should ever attempt.
It’s one thing to say the clandestine multis are DOA because the recipients can’t understand how to program the roms themselves, but people with no right to uninstall the stock ICs and reinstall the proposed solution will do so and will absolutely destroy the PCB. And that will be 100% worse, especially when the phrase “zero responsibility can and will be accepted by the project’s designers if hardware is rendered irreparably damaged due to lack of expertise in installation or preparation of hardware” will absolutely be used as a disclaimer when this is released.
Then again, if open sourcing it, then letting the Chinese do with it what they will is the realistic (and low key desired) outcome then let’s slam that gas pedal to the bottom, baybeeeee.
Again, not everyone being able to do a thing doesn't mean that a thing is destructive in nature. If that were the case, all of the HDMI mods for old consoles would be considered sacrificing a console since most have similar pitched flexcables involved (and far tinier via soldering). It's a very silly, and wholly inaccurate argument. If you were just saying "Man, the install is a little tough for most people" I would agree with you. But again, literally nothing destructive or irreversible taking place. And for maybe the 8th time, I will repeat that aim is for people to do this on the boots since it is not risking legit hardware.
And as just a side thought, I don't think needing a tool that is required for working on modern electronics to work on semi-modern electronics is that out there. Every cell phone/tablet/tv/etc shop uses a microscope. It's not a lot different than having a jack for your car. I understand that the majority of arcade-related soldering doesn't require it, but it's only a niche portion of electronics repair, and most electronics nowadays are small enough parts and SMD and a microscope is just bog standard now.
I would appreciate if we could stop having at least this particular round-and-round and let the thread get back to business as there is business to get back to. Everyone who has read it understands that the aim is boots and not originals (because only dummies would be doing that), and that the work is not for the unskilled. There's nothing to be gained from continuing to go rounds about it.
Well this is the nice thing about open-source. If they want to, they absolutely will, whether we want them to or not. I am clearly not in a position to be condoning it, but I fully acknowledge it will likely just happen. We have several Chinese boardsellers and creators on here and a few that are at least aware of here, plus someone who reached out on their own behalf to see about it with the boot guy, so it seems pretty inevitable.
That being said, I don't intend to give it a commercial use license because that takes it from a fun project for the community that is more or less legally defensible to one that isn't. China's lawless though, so I expect we'll see them sooner or later.
Actual updates:
@kasaki has some lovely ideas about a nicer install solution. Again, there's no getting around the pitch of those pins, but at least this should be nicer than the FPC connectors. And my rev1 jank multi boards were officially marked lost by DHL and I re-ordered from JLCPCB with UPS and they're in production.
xodaraP
Legendary
This. SMD removal and soldering like this requires skills and equipment that a lot of people do not have. A $20 soldering iron with $2 solder from Aliexpress will not cut it here
Enough people damaged their CPS2 multi kits just trying to solder the key writing wires, and this is about 5000 orders of magnitude higher in difficulty
Again, easy solution: have someone who IS capable do it. Needs to happen one time, takes about 15 minutes. Buy them beer (but let them drink it AFTER).
xodaraP
Legendary
I completely agree but there are limited people who will do this kind of work. Even more limited people who will do it for others, and often those who want the work done don’t want to pay for it or can’t find anyone and will take the risk doing it themselves
XtraSmiley
Legendary
Geezus fucking Crisco.
Enough about the damn difficulty in doing this. Let's get back on track on making it work.
1. If you have the skills you can do this to a real PCB you can, BUT you should do it to a boot.
2. If you don't have the skills to do this, you shouldn't even attempt it on a boot.
3. If you're an idiot and just want to do this to a PCB you own, well go the fuck for it! It's YOUR expensive PCB. Go ahead and ruin it, it will make my PCBs worth more!
How about we get back on track! Sorry Rewrite, I know this is your thread, but FFS, every 2 posts have been about how dangerous it is! Who cares! Do people really think people with a $20 soldering iron will attempt this on a $3000 PCB? The hand-wringing about this is ridiculous.
Go watch my fucking video again....
Enough about the damn difficulty in doing this. Let's get back on track on making it work.
1. If you have the skills you can do this to a real PCB you can, BUT you should do it to a boot.
2. If you don't have the skills to do this, you shouldn't even attempt it on a boot.
3. If you're an idiot and just want to do this to a PCB you own, well go the fuck for it! It's YOUR expensive PCB. Go ahead and ruin it, it will make my PCBs worth more!
How about we get back on track! Sorry Rewrite, I know this is your thread, but FFS, every 2 posts have been about how dangerous it is! Who cares! Do people really think people with a $20 soldering iron will attempt this on a $3000 PCB? The hand-wringing about this is ridiculous.
Go watch my fucking video again....