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RealMFnG

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So what's the call on convergence rings?
  • Swap the convergence rings along with the yoke from the arcade monitor to the donor tube?
or​
  • Use the convergence rings from the donor tube?
I've heard it is best to use the convergence rings from the donor tube.
FYI, using the convergence rings from the donor tube seems to be working out well right now.
 

RealMFnG

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  1. The original Phillips tube I was working with fits the screen curve of an MS8/9. But had no convergence rings. I put it to the side because I could do nothing for the convergence.
  2. I picked up another Phillips TV and this time it came with convergence rings.
So here is the deal for MS8/9 tube swaps. I have went through just about every possible brand of TV (including several Toshiba's) and the only brand I have encountered thus far that is a perfect screen curve match for the MS8/9 are Phillips tubes. However, all of these tubes are deeper in the back than the MS8/9 tubes. Here is the challenge with that: you have to remove the yoke spacers so the yoke is at the right depth to shoot a square converged image onto the phosphors. There is like no room for error either.

I've yoke swapped a number of Wells Gardner K7000's and they are a cinch. Never have I needed to remove the yoke spacers on K7000 donor tubes. In not having to do that, I don't have to fiddle too much with geometry. I just turn the tube face down, slide the yoke over the neck, square it as much as possible north/south/east/west, and make sure that the K7000 yoke touches all spacers. Give it a slight nudge in, then tighten down the yoke before fastening it down. Never had a purity or convergence problem I couldn't adjust out with the convergence rings. More importantly, never had a geometry problem either. However, once you remove the yoke spacers on your donor tube, you are guaranteeing yourself hours of work to get geometry, convergence, purity right. It is enough to turn you into @jassin000 .).

Still looking for a US 27" TV that works best as a MS8/9 donor. For now, I think I can work with this Phillips tube, though there is loads of work left to do. Will move to checking full physical fitment before I go further with fully calibrating the tube. I mean, this tube might have some physical peccadilloes. Best to work those out now. Here is where I am at thus far:

IMG_3262.jpg
 

Hedonism Bot 2.0

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For a ms8/9 you need to find a certain type of set. There is no guarantee those sets will have a proper tube or one that isn’t a bonded yoke. It’s all a gamble.

Tube manufactures make their tubes somewhat standard but each they make their own spin on it. Example- like that Orion tube is the same numbers as the blast tube but it’s a little flatter.

There is no real easy or standardized way of tube swaps imo. You pretty much just have to go in and hope for the best.
 

RealMFnG

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Yeap, I know this all too well. I drove 7 hours round trip just to pick up a Toshiba 27" TV 2 weeks ago. Quickly found out, it was too curved. I have went through 15-to-20 tubes in the past month. Still haven't successfully swapped with a Nanao monitor. Though, I have 5-6 donor tubes ready for the challenge with the MS2933. And the tube I have now I am probably going to be able to pull of for an MS8/9, though it is going to take ton of work to get the geometry, purity, convergence all down.

I may just turn into @jassin000 after all this and get a Viewlix :).
 

ebzero89

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Do you have a tube number for that Phillips up there, or a model number for the TV itself?
 

jassin000

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I got into arcade ownership because I liked to play the games.
I never wanted to be a tech... It was something I had to learn to maintain my toys.
When I first started out I thought "all I have to do is get this stuff" totally unaware of the burden of ownership (ie you have to service it or it will DIE).
 

Kavas

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I got into arcade ownership because I liked to play the games.
I never wanted to be a tech... It was something I had to learn to maintain my toys.
When I first started out I thought "all I have to do is get this stuff" totally unaware of the burden of ownership (ie you have to service it or it will DIE).
I find restorations and the endless amount of research/study that goes into every game/cabinet/tech to be part of the fun. Sometimes it can be frustrating or overwhelming the gaming side of it for sure.
 

RealMFnG

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I am just teasing @jassin000. He knows I got love for him and respect his disdain for CRT's. Pulled him into the conversation just to show that tube swapping isn't easy. Can drive one mad trying to perfect a CRT's image. Enough to make you jump the fence to HD cabs.

So these Phillips tubes are a lot of work for MS8/9's. I just ordered a sheet of Ultraperm 80 to make convergence strips. Right now, I am dealing with a purity problems in the upper left corner and a blue horizontal convergence issue that is way off at the upper part of the screen. Neither can be calibrated out by adjusting the yoke or the convergence rings. Just goes to show, screen curve to match the bezel's curve is just one thing to solve for with candy cab tube swaps.

Swapping US woodies is so much easier.
 

RealMFnG

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So here is where I am at.......purity issues in the corners of the screen.

IMG_3272.jpg


Pulled magnets off of a spare donor tube to experiment if placing them in similar spots on my donor candidate helps with the purity issues.

IMG_3271.jpg


It does! So now I have to get more magnets and stick them to the back of the tube accordingly. As for convergence, I have a bit more calibration to do and am focusing on the center of the screen. Almost there:

IMG_3274.jpg


But the outer edges of the screen are way off.

IMG_3273.jpg


Ordered a sheet of Ultraperm 80 so I can make convergence strips. I tell ya, the simple act of pulling the yoke wedges so you can position the yoke at the perfect deflection angle adds a ton of hours to the task ahead. US Domestic TV tube swapping with an MS8/9 is not for the faint of heart.
 

ebzero89

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That honestly doesn't look too bad. I appreciate the tube number, hopefully I"ll be able to track one down in my area.
 

benime

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I tell ya, the simple act of pulling the yoke wedges so you can position the yoke at the perfect deflection angle adds a ton of hours to the task ahead. US Domestic TV tube swapping with an MS8/9 is not for the faint of heart.
This has been my personal experience, as well.

Tube swapping A68 tubes is such a pain. Getting convergence even close to right is a chore, and heaven forbid you should have to move the thing or point it in another cardinal direction because then your purity gets hosed.
 

RealMFnG

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and heaven forbid you should have to move the thing or point it in another cardinal direction because then your purity gets hosed.

I think I better stop messing with purity then. I think I got the purity problems solved out of the corners of the screen. There is still some purity issues towards the left of the screen as shown in these pics:

IMG_3286.jpg

IMG_3287.jpg

IMG_3288.jpg


Perhaps when I mount and move the tube, the purity will fix itself (or get worse).

As for convergence, looks pretty good in the center of the screen but the edges are off. Hopefully, the Ultraperm 80 can help remedy this:

IMG_3285.jpg

IMG_3284.jpg

IMG_3283.jpg

IMG_3282.jpg

IMG_3278.jpg

IMG_3277.jpg

IMG_3276.jpg


Pretty happy as is with this tube. Will fit it in the cab today and see if I have to do some reverse mounting or use any spacers. Really, want to be able to play my cab again; get some R-Type II action going. Then will pull it out again when the Ultraperm 80 gets here to do final calibrations.
 

Thchardcore

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I made the mistake of trying to correct some geometry issues (they bothered me) on my 21 inch Toshiba trisync and I wish to God I never touched the fucker.

Long hard road back to what I remember it looking like. Live and learn.
 

RealMFnG

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I made the mistake of trying to correct some geometry issues (they bothered me) on my 21 inch Toshiba trisync and I wish to God I never touched the fucker.

Long hard road back to what I remember it looking like. Live and learn.

Pro Tip 1: If removing just the yoke to do such things as taping convergence strips under the yoke to fix geometry, use a grease pen or a white/silver colored fine tip Sharpie to:
  1. Trace the edges of the yoke right onto the yoke wedges
    • Put a cross hatch line across the yoke and yoke wedges so you can re-align the yoke later
  2. Trace a line around the back of the yoke right onto the tube neck
    • Put a cross hatch line across the back of the yoke right onto the neck so you can re-align the yoke later
  3. Allow the ink to dry so it does not smear as you pull off the yoke
  4. Add extra tape to the yoke wedges to ensure they are securely fasted to the back of the tube
    • After 20 years or so, the glue that held them in originally may have rotted away
  5. Do the same for the convergence rings
    • Also, helps if you place a piece of tape across the convergence rings so you can draw a perpendicular straight line across the rings
    • Don't forget to put a cross hatch line on the convergence rings and neck too
Pro Tip 2:
  1. Get different colored grease pens
  2. Mark the edges and tips of the convergence rings fins with different colors that correspond to the color gun they are adjusting
    • Helps with keeping one's sanity when performing this delicate task as it is hard sometimes distinguish which ring does which
 

Thchardcore

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Pro Tip 1: If removing just the yoke to do such things as taping convergence strips under the yoke to fix geometry, use a grease pen or a white/silver colored fine tip Sharpie to:
  1. Trace the edges of the yoke right onto the yoke wedges
    • Put a cross hatch line across the yoke and yoke wedges so you can re-align the yoke later
  2. Trace a line around the back of the yoke right onto the tube neck
    • Put a cross hatch line across the back of the yoke right onto the neck so you can re-align the yoke later
  3. Allow the ink to dry so it does not smear as you pull off the yoke
  4. Add extra tape to the yoke wedges to ensure they are securely fasted to the back of the tube
    • After 20 years or so, the glue that held them in originally may have rotted away
  5. Do the same for the convergence rings
    • Also, helps if you place a piece of tape across the convergence rings so you can draw a perpendicular straight line across the rings
    • Don't forget to put a cross hatch line on the convergence rings and neck too
Pro Tip 2:
  1. Get different colored grease pens
  2. Mark the edges and tips of the convergence rings fins with different colors that correspond to the color gun they are adjusting
    • Helps with keeping one's sanity when performing this delicate task as it is hard sometimes distinguish which ring does which
This is helpful. I did luckily mark the original positionings. Thank you for the details and I will rely on these when I get a free weekend to sort this out.
 

jjh2882

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Wow, that's nicely done! If anyone finds out the model number for this TV, it'd be great to know. Also curious, does anyone know if Samsung A68KVL74X03 is compatible with the MS9? Think it was mentioned on a previous thread it great to know if others had experience and knew if it worked.
 
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