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So, what are we asking for here?

Your #1, what I put up that poll for in OP, is really the only change/addition I guess I would say I'm "advocating" for. I don't want it to come across like this thread is my personal mission or anything like that- like I wrote in the OP, the main purpose was just to make sure these thoughts/concerns had a valid place to go without "poisoning" others FS threads. I think the concerns from those threads were valid, but I just didn't want to see said opinions shut down for being expressed in the "wrong place", or worse, a mod has to shut down someone's sales thread over it all. That's just a lose-lose for everyone.

The poll still has another 4 days on it. I originally set it up to end after a "workweek" of sorts. I figured that was more than enough time for even not-very-active users to log on, hopefully see the thread/poll, and get their $0.02 in. If other members are interested in disallowing interest check threads (I would add: with the exception of user-created/manufactured goods; our own admins here make these exact threads and they obviously serve a good purpose) then I would be in favor of adding that stipulation as well, though I think it's for the best to first let this poll ride out, solidify it, then move on from there, imo. I had planned to reach out to said head-honchos after the poll ends if reception to this kind of thread was positive, though I imagine at least /some/ of them have already been keeping tabs here to some small degree.

3. Some guardrails around access to the Marketplace.

3 gets weird in that I agree that gating behind things like post counts simply encourages low-quality posts and other nonsense to access the Marketplace; instead, I'd suggest that new users have to post in the Introduction forum to get Marketplace access.

I think the majority of us (at least of those that have chimed in) are not in favor of adding any kind of post-count/status restrictions. We've had some shadiness, sure, but I'm not sure it's been "bad enough" to warrant any alcatraz lock-down garden walling for the time being...at least from my experiences/perspective.

I do admittedly like the idea of, at a bare minimum, requiring a short introduction post to access the marketplace, though admittedly I'm not certain as to whether or not the mods/admins are able to streamline that process via the forum software, or if asking for that would mean asking each and every new user that makes an introductory thread be manually approved. Imo, I feel like it's a larger ask when you're talking about putting more work on the mods' shoulders as opposed to instating a rule that we simply have to follow on the honor system without their intervention. A number of us, myself included, have brought up concerns regarding new users in the marketplace mostly ending in the sentiment of "we want to support -the community- first, so all we ask is at least try to stick around; see what we're about".

I think the vast majority of us are OK with new users dropping by on a whim and doing a little commerce, but having an introductory post as a small requirement would at least /somewhat/ be an attempt to push that "hey, at least TRY to make friends here first; we want you to!" mentality.
 
3. Why not give it some real teeth? No access to the sales section unless the account is at least one year (12 months) old, with at least one login a month since its creation. If you want to be part of this site step up, noobs have to prove themselves and posers/flippers will be restricted.
The above is something only a seasoned member would suggest, and something that a new user (like me) would call out as not being in the best interest of the community. How long each user has been here probably determines how open you they are to this idea.

Would you join a new forum tomorrow with those rules? I personally wouldn’t, but that’s just how I interact with forums. I join, hang around for awhile, leave for awhile, come back for awhile. Don’t punish users for how they interact with forums.
 
I think listing a price is good idea and would stop the seller getting bombarded with offers,tbh I think some are being pretty hard on the sellers especially with the cave threads there super wanted pcbs and people go nuts for them!the sellers seem to be as fair as possible and sure some people will always be disappointed especially if it’s pretty rare and you don’t see them for sale very often.
As for a minimum post requirement to access marketplace for noobs I think it’s a bit unfair,a simple use of the ‘search’ can dig up threads that can answer most noob questions on hardware,software,monitor issues,game strategy.so what does a noob post?with out a veteran saying this question has been asked a million times us the ‘search’ of course I would always recommend introducing yourself and showing of your setup games etc.
 
Would you join a new forum tomorrow with those rules? I personally wouldn’t, but that’s just how I interact with forums. I join, hang around for awhile, leave for awhile, come back for awhile. Don’t punish users for how they interact with forums.
Dude when I joined THIS forum the market place didn't exist!
So yea, I totally would join a cool arcade forum just to chill with fellow arcade peeps.

Truth be told, in the beginning I viewed AP as a basic help desk for the Darksoft CPS2 multi (and potential future devices) rather than a fully featured community.
We (early members) all knew where to buy our PCBs (or already owned them) and it wasn't expected to be here.

I don't believe in pushing users either, however IF they want market place access on this site I think they should be an ACTIVE member (maybe 6 months is more reasonable).
I feel any good market place takes time/effort for admins to police, so its a benefit/perk of belonging to the community to have use of it.

When I sell, I try to always do it for exactly what I paid, regardless of the current PCB price/trend.
I don't want the things I sell to end up in the hands of flippers... I could make that profit... I want the buyer to love/enjoy/want to keep it (for at least a while, as I have).
 
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3. Why not give it some real teeth? No access to the sales section unless the account is at least one year (12 months) old, with at least one login a month since its creation. If you want to be part of this site step up, noobs have to prove themselves and posers/flippers will be restricted.
I don't think restricting new users from the sales section is the right approach. How would people new to the hobby get hardware and learn enough to become valuable parts of the community without it? That would just feed all the new users to the eBay flippers and further exacerbate the problem as it would drive up demand there, further giving the flippers more funds to circle back and buy up more of the boards from here to resell.

I agree with others that prices should be listed, if you want an auction take your sale to eBay. Prices for items sold on the forums need to be listed. The last part about avoiding flippers, why not also require the listing documents who bought the item too? That way if boards keep getting bought by a certain user and they show up consistently on eBay or re-listed for sale by that user it's easier to deal with it since there is a paper trail. Yeah there's maybe some people that wouldn't want that due to privacy or something, but on most sales anyway people post "I'll take it, PM sent" anyway so its a fair guess on who bought it. The other side benefit is it would solve the problem of posts sitting out with no responses and having people ask 6mo-1yr later "is this still available?" as the seller would need to close out the sale with a price and buyer. I know they are supposed to already list the sale price and don't always do so..

One other idea, require buyers to post IN THE SALE THREAD itself that they want to buy the item (the "I'll take it" kind of thing), then the seller respond in the thread that it has been sold and for how much, and/or the OP updated with those same details. The only details that should be worked out via PM are where to pay and ship, all others could be required to be done transparently. Even if someone did forget to do that, the seller would still need to post that it is sold, for how much, and the buyer's id.

Just some ideas, I love these forums, hoping to keep them healthy for years to come.
 
So, essentially: Seasons users like account-age/post-count restrictions, and new users who meet neither of these metrics do not. Crazy outcome! :rolleyes:

While again, I'm not necessarily in favor of these kinds of restrictions either (as of yet), I do have to agree with Jassin on this and emphasize it a bit more to make sure the point comes across strong:
Dude when I joined THIS forum the market place didn't exist!
So yea, I totally would join a cool arcade forum just to chill with fellow arcade peeps.

Truth be told, in the beginning I viewed AP as a basic help desk for the Darksoft CPS2 multi (and potential future devices) rather than a fully featured community.
We (early members) all knew where to buy our PCBs (or already owned them) and it wasn't expected to be here.

I don't believe in pushing users either, however IF they want market place access on this site I think they should be an ACTIVE member

The sentiment expressed from myself and other experienced members has been a concern that newer users will and have used the forums like eBay or just another marketplace, when it's not. It's Arcade Projects, not Arcade Marketplace. If this site didn't have a marketplace section At All, I would still frequent it and post around because I like the space compared to other arcade forums. For the most part, folks are pretty respectful and welcoming of newer users and to those who may be seasoned in the hobby- but maybe not in a particular subject, etc etc. Sure we have the occasional subject who's answers start and end with "this is asked all the time, read xyx [link] thread/use the search bar", but there's no real chastising or hazing to be found.

I don't think restricting new users from the sales section is the right approach. How would people new to the hobby get hardware and learn enough to become valuable parts of the community without it? That would just feed all the new users to the eBay flippers and further exacerbate the problem as it would drive up demand there, further giving the flippers more funds to circle back and buy up more of the boards from here to resell.

Again, not that I'm agreeing with Jassins 6 month suggestion or any account restrictions at all (sans maybe the intro post required suggestion), but, if you're new to the hobby in general...no one here is Obligated to give you a deal on physical items. The knowledge pool about the tech and the hobby to "get you started" is organized entirely separately from the marketplace. You can pick up your first starter cab from FB marketplace and cheap Neo Geos are still in ample supply on eBay if you want to get your feet wet with Jamma. No one Needs (or even Should be) starting their arcade journey with a candy and Mushi Futari. Even less so are they Obligated to get a price-cut on either of those just because they made an account here and are new. Walk before you can Run and all that jazz.

And to my knowledge, aside from one (or maybe a legion of them :rolleyes: hardy-har-har) account(s) by our friendly neighborhood yaton out in china, I don't think we have any major flippers taking things and putting them on eBay or other sites. Most of our users are pretty on-the-pulse as far as multiple places of sale, so if something they sold here recently pops up elsewhere, we've been pretty fast to know about it tbh. There hasn't been any witch burnings over it per-say, but we're aware and know who to and who not to deal with. "We all have our own lists" I think someone said here earlier.

The knowledge, of course, is and should always be 100% free :) new users are always welcome to ask tech questions, post their setups, or make their own progress/restore threads. I wouldn't agree that making an account here means you should expect to get community-support-driven deals. Just like in your example: if that's the case and it's just the norm that everyone on AP lists their items at a 15% markdown, then every flipper on eBay and elsewhere would swarm AP because they're ~Guaranteed~ a deal :whistling: it's a two way street.

This is a project site first and marketplace second, I just think the marketplace rules are still important since it /is/ folks cash at the end of the day; rarely in small sums, so these things should be talked about and considered. While new users shouldn't be heavily restricted from the marketplace imo, next to zero seasoned-or-otherwise members here are advocating that this site be used as a marketplace first. There's so so SO much more to do and talk about on AP other then buy/sell, and new users thinking otherwise is an issue all on it's own. Projects first. Wheel-and-deal second :)
 
I’d heavily caution the post count or time period prior to market access. On a few similar forums, this essentially wiped out the market. It also scared away dedicated sellers who had made their way to the boards. I think maybe hiding the market from public view when not signed in would go a long way. Also, calling out a seller for being shitty shouldn’t be frowned upon. A lot of folks here won’t speak up about things out of fear on missing out on items that seller might sell in the future. Sometimes, you gotta take a stand and grow a pair and this place has a tough time doing it.
 
I’d heavily caution the post count or time period prior to market access.

I think maybe hiding the market from public view when not signed in would go a long way.

I'm personally still in favor of restricting marketplace access until a user makes at least one "hello!" thread in the new member introductions section. It's not a big ask, and I think it's at least a small push in the right direction for "community first". Tell us a little about you and at least say Hi before you go swinging your wallet around :P

Sometimes, you gotta take a stand and grow a pair and this place has a tough time doing it.

tbf, this is why this thread is a thing. I like seeing users call things out and wanting positive changes, though I also admit that we do have (fine) rules in place already that prevent said callouts/discussions in for sale posts. i.e. If you've got feedback, actually use the feedback section, and not where people are still trying to sell their things, etc etc. We've had (what I would consider) "good" discussions here before that mods and admins have shut down due to "drama" concerns, or just users getting a little too heated and mouthy. There's a good way to talk about requesting these changes, but we also sometimes have a problem of not always using the appropriate avenues to talk about it, too :rolleyes:
 
I'm personally still in favor of restricting marketplace access until a user makes at least one "hello!" thread in the new member introductions section. It's not a big ask, and I think it's at least a small push in the right direction for "community first". Tell us a little about you and at least say Hi before you go swinging your wallet around :P



tbf, this is why this thread is a thing. I like seeing users call things out and wanting positive changes, though I also admit that we do have (fine) rules in place already that prevent said callouts/discussions in for sale posts. i.e. If you've got feedback, actually use the feedback section, and not where people are still trying to sell their things, etc etc. We've had (what I would consider) "good" discussions here before that mods and admins have shut down due to "drama" concerns, or just users getting a little too heated and mouthy. There's a good way to talk about requesting these changes, but we also sometimes have a problem of not always using the appropriate avenues to talk about it, too :rolleyes:
Yeah. Very true. I think moving discussions to a feedback forum would be a decent suggestion, but my only concern would be people not seeing it. Maybe if there is any issue a mod could tie it to the users profile somehow?
 
Personally I super agree with the calls for price transparency and listed prices up front. It’s super annoying to play the game how desperate are you for this item. Like haggling is fun, not having a place to start is bs (in my opinion).

As for marketplace restrictions on us newer/ lower post count folks it seems rather draconian and market limiting. That said I think the big benefit of this forum is direct access to people working on cool projects
 
I'm personally still in favor of restricting marketplace access until a user makes at least one "hello!" thread in the new member introductions section. It's not a big ask, and I think it's at least a small push in the right direction for "community first". Tell us a little about you and at least say Hi before you go swinging your wallet around
I don't think this will really do anything but generate BS intro posts. Same as requiring post count. FWIW I never posted an intro post because I'm pretty private and I don't see any use for it because I'm not going to share anything interesting. If I was required to post one I would just post the minimum to meet the requirement.

Personally, while I wish people would post prices I don't care that much. It doesn't seem to be that much of a problem from my perspective. Posting prices after sale is more important to me, but I do agree it would be better if there were prices up front. I don't know why anyone cares about sellers being buried in PMs, that's on them and they know what they're getting into.

Requiring buyers to post in the sales thread is a hard no from me. We don't allow price policing and I don't think we should allow buyer policing either. That's even worse. If a seller wants to sell to a long-term forum member instead of the actual first person who asks I don't know why we should care. No one should even have to know.

What I do care about is signal-to-noise and these pointless posts are really annoying to sift through. Even in legit interest check threads like for the CPS1 multi. I was interested but until the actual "official" thread was made I had to keep digging through endless "add me to the list" posts because sometimes there was actual info and conversation posted in there. Even once the official thread got added there were even people making "add me to the list" posts. These new Cave sales threads are just like that, where there are endless "dibs" posts and since I can't trust people to update their first post I have to keep wading through these posts just to see if maybe a board list with prices was posted.
 
I'm personally still in favor of restricting marketplace access until a user makes at least one "hello!" thread in the new member introductions section. It's not a big ask, and I think it's at least a small push in the right direction for "community first". Tell us a little about you and at least say Hi before you go swinging your wallet around :P

Interestingly enough I did exactly this prior to inquiring about an item in an older FS thread while going through all the sub-forums. It just seemed like the least I could do was offer an introduction to the community being a newb here. I think that it's a fair approach although I can also understand long standing members being more protective to eliminate abuse.

I voted for prices to be added for FS topics- This works pretty well from other forums I've seen. Transparency is king.
 
While we're at it, can mods do some about the (either illiterate or intentionally ad-misplacing) jerkoffs who keep posting wtbs in the for sale section?

Shit is obnoxious
 
@MmSadda part of the issue here is political.
What I mean by that is sometimes admins will turn a blind eye if the offender is a long time member who has assisted the community over the years.
No I'm not saying that makes it OK, just complicated.
 
While we're at it, can mods do some about the (either illiterate or intentionally ad-misplacing) jerkoffs who keep posting wtbs in the for sale section?
@MmSadda part of the issue here is political.
What I mean by that is sometimes admins will turn a blind eye if the offender is a long time member who has assisted the community over the years.
No I'm not saying that makes it OK, just complicated.

am I missing something? I just went several pages deep into this forum and didn't see a single WTB.
 
Im in favor of putting up a sale price. Also in favor of posting what it sold for, at least to have some sort of guide or database to give us an idea how much something is worth. It would make it easier for both buyers and sellers.
You are in the favor of normal respecting rules witch is the correct mentality :happy:
 
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