FS Let's (Respectfully) talk about the Rules™

[MmSadda]

am I missing something? I just went several pages deep into this forum and didn't see a single WTB.

Yes the recent post that says 'delete' or 'close' or something.

Usually there are a couple on the front page. *edit-that one does look to have been moved or deleted.

Maybe it's been less bad lately, but long term has been a perpetual headache here. (conversely, shmups forums tend to move inappropriately place threads with the swiftness)

 

[twistedsymphony]

I mean sometimes I takes a day or two to notice and move these but I don't see any older WTBs in there either.

 

[ekorz]

if the thread was titled “MMAO” instead of “FS” is that a problem? Just trying to find out if people are upset about not listing prices in FS threads, or just hate when a seller is trying to locally maximize the sale. My perspective is, even a mmao situation localized to A-P is going to favor a buyer, given the limited audience, versus the same listing on eBay.

I dislike when FS threads have eBay links but don’t mind making offers especially on rare or hard to price items.

 

[GeeDee]

It's a good question, and personally, I think this goes back to a mix of due diligence and seller confidence. (imo,) If you want to add an MMAO or a OBO to your items, it should be coupled with a starting price. "Having trouble landing on a good price, so lets say $xxx or MMAO". If you can't find a past sold price for reference, use the price check thread. If you don't get any results in a price check thread, while it may sound a little harsh, list it for what it's worth to you. What did you pay for it originally? Is it a popular brand name (Nintendo/Sega/Cave/ etc)? How old is it, and is it related to a popular title? We all wish our dirty socks sold for millions, but that's just not the case. Some of us also wish our boards went for 4x their actual value, but, that's also not the case. I don't think it's asking a lot for a seller to find a number they would be happy to receive if they did sell their item, even if they can't find a perfect past-sold reference.

Just from my own recent experience: I have/had a VS dualsystem cabinet for sale, and had A LOT of trouble finding a past sold price. It's not a common cabinet to see restored, and I knew that going into it. It's also technically not the more "desired" version of the dualsystem; most go for the red tent model if they want a DS. I saw that red tents were selling, while still needing A LOT of restoration work, for between 1200-1600. I decided that despite it not being the more desirable model, it's harder to find in the condition I've gotten mine to, and there isn't much of any work left to do on it at all; the restoration is "done", so I landed on a $2500 obo tag. Obviously it's just sat *here* for a little while, but I recently posted it to Klov and got A LOT more attention. Initially someone suggested that it may only be worth $1500 due to its size and desirability (understandable), but as it turns out, over there, I've had to beat people in DMs off with a stick for the cab. I probably could have priced it at $3.5K and it would have moved at that number. But I didn't change the price in the thread due to the attention, and I didn't start silent auctions in my DMs. I have a guy coming next week to pick it up for the exact number I asked for: $2500. I don't think I "Missed out" on an extra $1K. I found a number I was happy with, and luckily, I got that number.

 

[ekorz]

In plenty of situations the $ isn’t the only aspect of the offer though, that’s why I do like pure MMAO.

@Derick2k sold a night slashers for an “offer” of some cash and that the board is going to fpga research

Some prefer local pickup (@GeeDee to the tune of $1000 off market) vs someone with deep pockets and a freight forwarder, or at least that the impression I’m getting. (Or at least that’s how I read your scenario)

i want to sell a pvm and someone who runs gaming tournaments is going to catch my ear

I’m done with ddp sdoj and I want to hear from someone who is ready to 1cc it versus put it on a shelf

price is fluid in these cases and I don’t necessarily even want to sell the item for just pure money sometimes

Offers are also conversational which I think is a bonus. Ok that’s my $.02

 

[GeeDee]

I agree with a lot of what your saying, I've even mentioned some of those exact scenarios myself in this same thread, but I think those specific situations require stipulations to be listed in the FS thread. That's where things get contentious (again) for some reason. Favoring collectors vs players and preservationists and vice versa. I think that's an """"issue"""" totally separate for asking for starting prices. Again, just an $.02 on my part: but if you wanted to sell something like an SDOJ to an actual high-level player for a hefty discount BECAUSE they're a dedicated player (which, frankly, I'm all for- I love to see the love of the *game* win over the love of a fancy pcb, but that's my bias) I think it would rock to write in the FS thread "Will only sell to anyone who can send me a YT video of them 1ccing the game and prove it's them in the video". I think a situation like that is extremely emblematic of wanting to push + support "community first", in it's own way. Just in that situation you're specifically targeting a community of specific players, and less so a community of collectors, and I think that's fine since we're all here for different reasons, but it's a different topic altogether imo that's received it's own fair share of pushback for whatever reason. Just for the little extra bonding: I still remember selling a 3S setup to someone with some PVMs for a nice discounted package deal specifically because I knew they wanted to use them for some fighting game local events that they host every week. Felt really great to support someone big into the game itself and I resonate with what you're saying in that regard; 10-fold.

Also, just to touch on it:

Some prefer local pickup (@GeeDee to the tune of $1000 off market) vs someone with deep pockets and a freight forwarder, or at least that the impression I’m getting. (Or at least that’s how I read your scenario)

It had less to do with the pickup vs shipping as much as it did deciding on a number that I would be happy to get vs posting without a price and saying "first DM with the biggest number wins". In my situation, there was no reference for market price. Can't really say it's "$1000 off market" when there's no proof I could have gotten $3.5K+ for it. That's just me speculating post-sale that I maybe, probably could have gotten that if I would have posted it for that number originally, but there wasn't anything prior to listing it for the number that I did originally that would have pointed me in that direction. There's no way to tell and there's no way to know- especially considering in my own price check, I was initially quoted only $1500, which turned out to be far less then what people were actually willing to pay, considering the attention after the fact and how quickly multiple people were willing to pay my starting asking price. Again, to reiterate, there was no "market history" for this beforehand. I just looked at semi-related things and decided on what the item was worth to me, as the seller, at this time, when no other direct frames of reference were available. If you don't care how it's shipped/picked up and you want the absolute highest dollar possible, take it to ebay and set a reserve price. Forum sales should be about doing the opposite of that- doing like what you and I agree would be a cool thing to do to support people that care about these games and list them with clear stipulations and prices indicative of going from one community member to another.

 

[BanishingFlatsAC]

I’m say an outright ban in MMAO threads is the thing to do. Again, if you want offers, take that shit to eBay.

 

[ekorz]

I’m say an outright ban in MMAO threads is the thing to do. Again, if you want offers, take that shit to eBay.

That doesn’t allow for any of the above scenarios. What is wrong with them?

 

[djsheep]

Is it me, or does this thread seems to be beating a dead horse and becoming extremely long winded and overly analytical for what it is?

Pretty sure the results of poll, alongside with the general consensus / theme within individual replies hits the nail on the head on what is the status quo of what should be happening, which is what I assumed were the "rules" all along.

That is, if you want to sell, simply list a price. It's not rocket science.

The real question at this point is if the forum staff/owners are willing/wanting to strictly enforce/make any changes, and also what the consequences of not following the "rules" are.

At this point, I'm assuming there's no need to list a price as there's been no interjection from the forum staff about existing threads without them. So until someone with some level of authority speaks up or moderates I'm just going to assume that's how it is going forward.

 

[imbord3rlin3]

^ this

 

[GeeDee]

The real question at this point is if the forum staff/owners are willing/wanting to strictly enforce/make any changes, and also what the consequences of not following the "rules" are.

This is true. Shot off a DM about the thread like I mentioned doing some time ago if there was positive reception about this kind of thread by the end of it all, so we'll see if anything comes of it. The majority clearly wants the small change/addendum, so it's worth the DM. Would have left it be if the poll swung the opposite way of course. Not sure what to suggest on the idea of consequences though, in all honesty. I think it's more then enough to at least "solidify" the rule for now, if they're willing to do so.

 

[ekorz]

I hear you can pay @twistedsymphony in Uo Poko paws if you want to ask him to spend more time enforcing this

 

[XtraSmiley]

These threads are all the same. Pages and pages of opinions and at the end of the day, if the whoever is running the site makes no changes, no changes are made.

I vote, FS post must have prices. MMAO or OBO post must have a starting price as well.

Easy rule change that allows a gauge of what someone is thinking. The seller doesn't have to sell either.

 

[BanishingFlatsAC]

That doesn’t allow for any of the above scenarios. What is wrong with them?

IMO, those sales threads lead to the same issues that not having a price does. Secret PMs and accurate prices not being posted. MMAO threads are banned on several forums I am on for that reason.

I agree that if something was going to be done, the mods probably would have done it already. As others have stated, there is a lot of “looking the other way” for certain users. There isn’t much anyone is going to do about it.

I think in the end we’re going to see a massive reduction in sales across all forums now that PayPal is reporting any income over $600 that’s not F&F.

 

[XtraSmiley]

IMO, those sales threads lead to the same issues that not having a price does. Secret PMs and accurate prices not being posted. MMAO threads are banned on several forums I am on for that reason.

I agree that if something was going to be done, the mods probably would have done it already. As others have stated, there is a lot of “looking the other way” for certain users. There isn’t much anyone is going to do about it.

I think in the end we’re going to see a massive reduction in sales across all forums now that PayPal is reporting any income over $600 that’s not F&F.

I think you guys in the US need to really read that rule. ALL money transfers are being reported, not just sales. Yes, that means F&F payments as well.

 

[Aurich]

Yeah, everything is reported and then it's going to be up to you to explain to the IRS why some transactions aren't taxable (it was a gift, it was my friends splitting dinner). And that means people are still going to be asking for F&F to try and duck it, so really in the end it's the same effect.

 

[Aurich]

Also, I'm just going to say this: I don't really care who was "first". It's not a race, you don't win a prize for being fast or happening to see a post before someone else. If I get a bunch of messages together just because you happened to see it first doesn't mean it's yours. Now if I promise it to you that's different, it's big time wack to back out on a deal you agreed to because someone else messages later offering more or something.

But "first" is whatever. If I get two PMs over the same time period before I've replied to anyone and one is someone with no avatar and 3 posts and they're all WTB, and the other is someone who's been a contributing member who actually adds to the conversation here, that actual contributing to the community person is getting my reply and first chance at the sale.

All this worry over "secret private messages" is pointless. I'm going to sell to who I choose. And I'm happy to publicly list the sale price ahead of time, and leave it up when I'm done, but I'll definitely pick who I want to deal with. It's silly to try and worry about rules for that stuff, any seller is going to do what they see fit.

 

[XtraSmiley]

Yeah, everything is reported and then it's going to be up to you to explain to the IRS why some transactions aren't taxable (it was a gift, it was my friends splitting dinner). And that means people are still going to be asking for F&F to try and duck it, so really in the end it's the same effect.

Yup. The point is you can try to lie about multiple random people paying you over $600 throughout the year, but now you are on much thinner ice because you are choosing to lie about it vs what was up to this point, an untraceable omission of income.

The reality is, there is no way to explain why you got 10 F&F payments over the year from people around the world if you ever get audited. Not really worth it if you have a family, business, home at stake. Much easier just to pay the $100 or so in taxes, right? At least it will be for me, and as such I'll just build the tax cost into my sale (and pass it on as stores do), eat the cost, or whatever, but I'll still report each and every PCB sale over $600. Of course it's all waive-able if you can prove you paid for it and the "profit" is minimal anyway.

Also, I'm just going to say this: I don't really care who was "first". It's not a race, you don't win a prize for being fast or happening to see a post before someone else. If I get a bunch of messages together just because you happened to see it first doesn't mean it's yours. Now if I promise it to you that's different, it's big time wack to back out on a deal you agreed to because someone else messages later offering more or something.

But "first" is whatever. If I get two PMs over the same time period before I've replied to anyone and one is someone with no avatar and 3 posts and they're all WTB, and the other is someone who's been a contributing member who actually adds to the conversation here, that actual contributing to the community person is getting my reply and first chance at the sale.

All this worry over "secret private messages" is pointless. I'm going to sell to who I choose. And I'm happy to publicly list the sale price ahead of time, and leave it up when I'm done, but I'll definitely pick who I want to deal with. It's silly to try and worry about rules for that stuff, any seller is going to do what they see fit.

Yup. I'm the seller, I can sell to whoever I want in whatever order I want. People get forgetful of shit when they want a hard to get game! (myself included!)

 

[BanishingFlatsAC]

I think you guys in the US need to really read that rule. ALL money transfers are being reported, not just sales. Yes, that means F&F payments as well.

See, now I’ve heard conflicting things. Most outlets are reporting that money received from family for bills or friends splitting the check at dinner will not go towards that $600. Weird.

 

[XtraSmiley]

See, now I’ve heard conflicting things. Most outlets are reporting that money received from family for bills or friends splitting the check at dinner will not go towards that $600. Weird.

Yes it won't if you claim it as such. At the end of the year the payment companies will send you a run down of all costs over $600, which the government also gets. It's up to you to decide what was a purchase and what wasn't.

You have to itemize it and will report each event.