MiSTer FPGA

[ShootTheCore]

I'm not picking up any "rage" from Byuu's article either; rather just understandable annoyance at how emulation is marketed as inferior to FPGA solutions, when really both methods of hardware recreation have their respective Pros and Cons.

What I especially agree with is his last paragraph about asking for proof that FPGA > good emulation. I'd definitely like to see some highly accurate comparisons between original hardware, FPGA, and emulation performed by knowledgeable people that can accurately measure such things. PC emulation continues to make progress in interesting ways - the new RetroArch run-ahead emulation that supposedly achieves less lag than original hardware is especially interesting to me at the moment.

 

[rewrite]

from Byuu's article either

I definitely read that as directed at @waiwainl... :/

run-ahead emulation that supposedly achieves less lag than original hardware

If it has less lag than original hardware, doesn't that defeat the purpose of trying to emulate accurately at all? That's intentionally emulating inaccurately for the sake of... who knows what.

 

[tiff_lee]

Yeah I struggle with that concept a little, less lag then the original hardware? so we aren't emulating/simulating the original hardware then? I'd have to have a go and see if I can perceive any difference as to whether or not it impacts on the experience

 

[Frank_fjs]

Something to consider, less lag than original means a chance of things evening out when you factor in lag introduced by modern displays / wireless controllers etc.

I see your point though.

 

[twistedsymphony]

I got a request earlier today about someone wanting me to start carrying 3D printed parts for these.

Regardless of how good or bad this is as a platform does anyone know...
1. How many of these are out in the wild?
2. How consistent is the configuration? it seems like there are lot of add-on boards. Is everyone's setup pretty much the same or is there a lot of variation?

Also where does someone even buy this thing/accessories?

 

[suverman]

I got a request earlier today about someone wanting me to start carrying 3D printed parts for these.

Regardless of how good or bad this is as a platform does anyone know...
1. How many of these are out in the wild?
2. How consistent is the configuration? it seems like there are lot of add-on boards. Is everyone's setup pretty much the same or is there a lot of variation?

Also where does someone even buy this thing/accessories?

I have been following this project because of Smokemonster and his amazing youtube videos. I have bought a DE-10 NANO the minimum that you need to run the cores. However it get very "unstandard" after this and the combinations are endless - below is a few that comes to my mind:

There are 3 configuration of SDRAM - available at atari forums.
https://camo.githubusercontent.com/...73532462f33315f55426f6172645f436f6d702e706e67

There is an IO board BUT only needed if you want analogue video out. IO board will have a fan mount BUT you can get 3D printed fan mount without IO board. LL Cool joy (another IO board? I supposed to be out which gives lag free controls - not sure if it will replace the IO board).
https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/MiSTer_I_O_Board_v5_2.html

Fan mount is important, but passive cooling is also acceptable. No active or passive cooling can get the FPGA run real high temperature.

Mister has 1 micro usb port unless you have a OTG hub you cannot run more than one input device. So OTG USB hub is a must.

These are very few of the number of combinations that are out there.

The official forum for miSTer is
http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=31825


I am not an expert in the project, but it seems like DE-10 NANO will be far from perfect - given the standards are still not set and also I felt input lag in the PCE core which makes it really hard to recommend at this point. Maybe in a couple of years on a different board it would finally be Analogue killer but I wont hold my breath.

 

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

"I felt input lag in the PCE core which makes it really hard to recommend "

Was that with the analogue I/O board @240p that you felt lag? My understanding is that there is about 1.5 frame of lag over HDMI due to the scaler or something.

 

[AlxUnderBase]

MiSTer add-on boards

What to buy for MiSTer project

 

[suverman]

"I felt input lag in the PCE core which makes it really hard to recommend "

Was that with the analogue I/O board @240p that you felt lag? My understanding is that there is about 1.5 frame of lag over HDMI due to the scaler or something.

On HDMI. I still dont have the analogue I/O board - I am waiting to see what LL Cool Joy would be.

 

[nio]

Do thede FPGA run Amiga 600 or 1200 with extension boards? like 68020 or so? i want to play monkey island amiga version. is zhat possible?

 

[deibit]

somebody said Mister?

It's a great piece! For amiga and ST I prefer the MiST thought, mostly because of Midi and DB9

 

[waiwainl]

I got a request earlier today about someone wanting me to start carrying 3D printed parts for these.

Regardless of how good or bad this is as a platform does anyone know...
1. How many of these are out in the wild?
2. How consistent is the configuration? it seems like there are lot of add-on boards. Is everyone's setup pretty much the same or is there a lot of variation?

Also where does someone even buy this thing/accessories?

The units amounts are growing by the day, as more Cores are supported and Smokemonster is promoting it. Thus interested people will only grow.

However, the form factor is not stable. Because of all the add-on boards that still are being created and they are absolutely non-standard.
For example the SDRAM module has already 5 different shapes with the different sellers. IO-Board v5.5 has a reasonable standard PCB layout, but the actual components used might differ per seller.

Plus the order in which the IO boards can be chained is flexible, meaning if you have DE10 + Board A + Board B than the guy who purchases DE10 + Board A + Board C needs another shell.

You could go for most common configurations:

1. DE10 + IO Board (old version) + SDRAM (both XS and normal)
2. DE10 + IO Board 5.5 + SDRAM
3. DE10 + IO Board 5.5 + USB Board + SDRAM

 

[twistedsymphony]

thanks... this is exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

 

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

Plus there is another USB board being designed that will have NeoGeo or Sega type controller for instant input..we are looking at the DE-10 + I/O + Ram + New USB controller thing = complete system

maybe stay clear until this mature to a standard hardware config. I kind of would like to see the last 3 pieces integrated into a single board..

 

[deibit]

These FPGA platforms never get mature enough.. they get developed until the developer gets bored of the limitations of the platform and shifts to a another one..

I got 6 diferent in 2 years.. the good thing is that i still use all of them

Now I'm waiting for two of them, the ReplayV2 with the 060 daughter board and the vampire V4 standalone.

 

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

"Now I'm waiting for two of them, the ReplayV2 with the 060 daughter board and the vampire V4 standalone."

Slowdown youngster, the current one is still on Babies steps..I don't want to upgrade every 2 years.

 

[edwin128]

I got a request earlier today about someone wanting me to start carrying 3D printed parts for these.

Regardless of how good or bad this is as a platform does anyone know...
1. How many of these are out in the wild?
2. How consistent is the configuration? it seems like there are lot of add-on boards. Is everyone's setup pretty much the same or is there a lot of variation?

Also where does someone even buy this thing/accessories?

The units amounts are growing by the day, as more Cores are supported and Smokemonster is promoting it. Thus interested people will only grow.

Yes. The best thing is that cheaper than any Analogue's solution that only offers you one core.

Mister supports open-source cores that freely available that are improve constanly.

You pay here for the hardware and not loyalties to the developer!

 

[ShootTheCore]

Yes. The best thing is that cheaper than any Analogue's solution that only offers you one core.
Mister supports open-source cores that freely available that are improve constanly.

True, but to Analog’s credit, their single-core solutions are highly developed and highly accurate. Few of the Mister’s cores, especially the universal HD upscaler, are as accurate or optimized as the Analog cores.

I’m sure the Mister will get there eventually, but the Analog stuff is the top-of-the line for FPGA at the moment.

 

[edwin128]

I got a request earlier today about someone wanting me to start carrying 3D printed parts for these.

Regardless of how good or bad this is as a platform does anyone know...
1. How many of these are out in the wild?
2. How consistent is the configuration? it seems like there are lot of add-on boards. Is everyone's setup pretty much the same or is there a lot of variation?

Also where does someone even buy this thing/accessories?

The units amounts are growing by the day, as more Cores are supported and Smokemonster is promoting it. Thus interested people will only grow.

Yes. The best thing is that cheaper than any Analogue's solution that only offers you one core.
Mister supports open-source cores that freely available that are improve constanly.

You pay here for the hardware and not loyalties to the developer!

They will because there are open-source and the growing interest on them .

 

[Flain]

It is taking off pretty quickly, it now has more cores supported than the MiST project

Some random info of note:
- There is a cycle accurate 68000 core in FXCast (atari ST core)
- the 68k is now open source (as of a few days ago) and is nearly done porting to the genesis core (which runs the titan overdrive 2 demo pretty well already)
- The PC Engine/TG16 core is pretty much perfect
- There is a new scaler in development that has the option to turn off the framebuffer (0 lag mode - its on github so can be tested/played with today)
- You can load custom scalers at runtime in the newest dev builds (basically you have a framemeister built in)
- There is a low lag controller board being made (usb has about 16ms of lag on average so about 1 frame of lag if you use usb controllers on anything)
- furtek recently got one to see about porting his neogeo work to it
- a lot of cores work with just the de10 nano and don't even need the add on boards (genesis, TG16 all the arcade cores etc)
- what looks like complete SNES FPGA core just came out of nowhere a few days ago - the MiSTer devs have already said they will be porting it over

In terms of FPGA size, it has approx double the logic elements than the FPGA inside the super nt (so about twice the size).

Other thing to take note of is the DE10 nano can be purchsed from terasic on the official website and shipping is fast (it only took 2 days to receive mine to australia). Intel subsidize the sale of them so while you can buy them at $110-130USD the actual cost of the de10 nano is more around $300USD+. It's a part of an intel education initiative. I don't know how long thats going to last with the rate at which this thing is gaining attention. The intended purpose of the board is for education not for running retro gaming lol.

If anyone ever releases a CPS1/2 or neogeo core they will become overnight retro community celebrities lol