Reverse engineering 161 in 1 cartridge to change Rom games

[HornheaDD]

3. I ran into a lack of space in the flash chips on one cartridge. Even if I throw out games that are unnecessary in my opinion, there is still not enough space for a full NEO GEO romset on one one cart.

I could be totally wrong here, but I thought I read somewhere (in this thread, maybe?) that a lot of the hacks on the 161 carts use the same assets from similar ROMs or something. I guess they did that to conserve space and yet still 'pad out' the game list?

Again - I could be totally off base here, but I thought I read that somewhere.

 

[Vortex]

Yes, Plus versions usually share the same C-ROM and only have a different P-ROMS.

In total we have here:

C-ROM (2 chip 1 GB each) = 2GB.
P-ROM (3 chip 128 MB each) = 384 MB.
V-ROM (1 chip) = 1 GB.
M-ROM (256 "slots" by 256 KB each).
S-ROM (256 slots by 128 KB each).

Main concern is C-ROM.
Just all Metall Slugs + KOF's + Samurai Shodown's takes approx 982 MB of C-ROM data.
All other games takes another 1.8 GB.
So full Neo Geo romset is approx 2.7 GB in terms of C-ROM.

Throwing away Mahjongs and Quizes doesn't really solve the problem as these games usually don't require much room in the C-ROM.

 

[MickyMac]

22118 MEGA POWER!!!

 

[Rom1]

For V & C roms you mean GB ? not MB ?

Maybe another option would be to remove some of the game in each series. Some players don't care about a full set of a serie (MS, KoF, Samurai...) and one or 2 are enough.
MSlug2 Turbo should be there if MS2 is (only P Rom diff) and the same for Shock Trooper where 2 releases exist.

 

[Vortex]

For V & C roms you mean GB ? not MB ?

Sure, thanks for clarification.

With my utility, the user will be able to compile any set of games for himself, throwing out unnecessary ones in his opinion.
I'm just making a set for myself, I have two spare 161-in-1 carts and I want to compile a complete collection of official (and not only) games.

 

[gameofyou]

This would be amazing, to put a custom game list together, for the low-cost 161-in-1 cartridge. I would remove all the bootleg games, even if it doesn’t save much space. Then replacing 10 or so of the existing games, with different games, would make an almost perfect solution!

 

[SMD88]

This would be amazing, to put a custom game list together, for the low-cost 161-in-1 cartridge. I would remove all the bootleg games, even if it doesn’t save much space. Then replacing 10 or so of the existing games, with different games, would make an almost perfect solution!

100% agree! Would be fantastic!

 

[maki]

C-ROM (2 chip 1 GB each) = 2GB.
P-ROM (3 chip 128 MB each) = 384 MB.
V-ROM (1 chip) = 1 GB.
M-ROM (256 "slots" by 256 KB each).
S-ROM (256 slots by 128 KB each).

Main concern is C-ROM.
Just all Metall Slugs + KOF's + Samurai Shodown's takes approx 982 MB of C-ROM data.
All other games takes another 1.8 GB.
So full Neo Geo romset is approx 2.7 GB in terms of C-ROM.

Awesome info and a very impressive project!

So a Full Set won't be a thing due to limited space.
Personally, I don't care about KoF at all, and they are (over-) present on the 161-in-1 modules.

Some titles are currently not available to people without deep pockets or that got really lucky, Magician Lord etc.
If there was a set that would sort of be "complete"by adding the missing games of the standard 161-in-1 module, that might go a long way and find lots of interest, but thats just my guess.

If you really don't care about making money, other people copying your work is the best case scenario IMO.

 

[XtraSmiley]

Awesome info and a very impressive project!

So a Full Set won't be a thing due to limited space.
Personally, I don't care about KoF at all, and they are (over-) present on the 161-in-1 modules.

Some titles are currently not available to people without deep pockets or that got really lucky, Magician Lord etc.
If there was a set that would sort of be "complete"by adding the missing games of the standard 161-in-1 module, that might go a long way and find lots of interest, but thats just my guess.

If you really don't care about making money, other people copying your work is the best case scenario IMO.

Magician Lord? That one takes deep pockets? Oh man, you have not been collecting NG long….

He’s releasing the info publicly so you can do what you want with it. I think a 2-cart solution with all the games is the best answer, barring finding a way to double the memory and fit them all on one.

 

[maki]

Magician Lord? That one takes deep pockets? Oh man, you have not been collecting NG long….

Well the AES version can be quite expensive, the MVS is a few hundred bucks, similar for other games that aren't on the 161-in-1.

Personally I'm convinced that many go the consolized MVS route only to save money on the actual games, here in Europe one can get an JPN AES for 350 - 550 Euros, depends on the condition and accessories, thats how much consolized MVS cost (cheapest NEO-AES I got on eBay was 160,- Euros, junk but fixed it), complete CMVS cost you more than 350,-
Then there is the MVS shells to make them look like AES..

 

[HornheaDD]

Magician Lord? That one takes deep pockets? Oh man, you have not been collecting NG long….

I think the meaning is for basic games. I remember I got Magician Lord for AES for like $30 in 2001. Eventually sold it, and got the MVS cart for another $20 or so. Sold IT, and then years later when I wanted the game again I looked it up and.... way more expensive. In fact, not that this is a price guide per se, but this is a current ebay listing for the MVS cart:

Shits insane, yo.

 

[Kerbdog]

This is most awesome. Should this become 'a service' that some with the skillz might offer, will it be limited to certain versions of the 161in1 carts?

 

[Niko]

I think the meaning is for basic games. I remember I got Magician Lord for AES for like $30 in 2001. Eventually sold it, and got the MVS cart for another $20 or so. Sold IT, and then years later when I wanted the game again I looked it up and.... way more expensive. In fact, not that this is a price guide per se, but this is a current ebay listing for the MVS cart:

Shits insane, yo.

Jeez.... I remember picking up my US AES version for $100 shipped. Its the one US/Euro game I remember being cheaper than the JPN version.

 

[XtraSmiley]

ML is still cheap, both AES and MVS. How the hell are you guys buying games? Going on eBay and clicking BIN on the most expensive listings?

No, it’s not $20, but what arcade game is now? I just mean, as an example of an “expensive” NeoGeo game, ML ain’t it.

 

[GeorgeSpinner]

ML is still cheap, both AES and MVS. How the hell are you guys buying games? Going on eBay and clicking BIN on the most expensive listings?

No, it’s not $20, but what arcade game is now? I just mean, as an example of an “expensive” NeoGeo game, ML ain’t it.

You are right. That's not an expensive game.

I think when a lot of people see they just got 100+ games (on the 161 in 1) for less than $100, the idea of spending a few hundred on a single title seems like a lot.

If they really want the game cheap they can get an MVS clone from China for not much money at all (maybe $40?).

The flash carts are a good alternative/value if someone is not a collector (like me).

 

[nem]

You can still pick up a ton of MVS carts for less than $50 each. ML isn't one of them. It's not SSVS expensive, but it's certainly crept up to a price point that I wouldn't consider buying one now.

 

[XtraSmiley]

You are right. That's not an expensive game.

I think when a lot of people see they just got 100+ games (on the 161 in 1) for less than $100, the idea of spending a few hundred on a single title seems like a lot.

If they really want the game cheap they can get an MVS clone from China for not much money at all (maybe $40?).

The flash carts are a good alternative/value if someone is not a collector (like me).

Same for me brother. I wish the NG flash cart was under $200!

I hope this project pans out and we get 1 or 2 super cheap multi carts that have all the games!

 

[XtraSmiley]

You can still pick up a ton of MVS carts for less than $50 each. ML isn't one of them. It's not SSVS expensive, but it's certainly crept up to a price point that I wouldn't consider buying one now.

Yeah, if $50 is the bar, I guess ML is above it, but man, it was actually my cheapest AES cart, although I don’t collect fighting games at all.

 

[Neo-Alec]

Same for me brother. I wish the NG flash cart was under $200!

I hope this project pans out and we get 1 or 2 super cheap multi carts that have all the games!

I have a couple of NeoSD's, but it would be great to have an instant-loading multicart with all the official games on it. I use the 161-in-1 with the Unibios pick'n mix for my cab's demo mode.

 

[rockbottom]

Great work done by @Vortex
Shame I never had the time to go further with this, but looks like it's been going well, will be interesting to see the "compile any set of games" utility!
If it also spits of cpld and STC code, and the same STM dev board can be used to program those chips (which can be programmed in-circuit unlike the roms), then it's getting close to being a full solution.
The modder is always going to have to phyically remove/refit the roms, but having a single piece of hw and sw to do everything else would pretty much complete the project.