Reverse engineering 161 in 1 cartridge to change Rom games

[Yami]

I have a couple of questions that will probably seem stupid for many of you, I apologize in advance:

1. Let's say that I don't want the whole Neogeo library but just some titles, as long as they work *properly* (not like the current 161-in-1s), would that make the conversion process easier, maybe sticking to the default storage available? (e.g. a 161-in-1 with the same list of games, *but* properly fixed).

2. Game selection is dependent on hardware "structure", or it's "just" a matter of available "storage"?

Thank you so much!

 

[rewrite]

1. Let's say that I don't want the whole Neogeo library but just some titles, as long as they work *properly* (not like the current 161-in-1s), would that make the conversion process easier, maybe sticking to the default storage available?

You can stick to default storage available and not have to source a spare flashrom out of a donor cart. The entire process is 95% the same though, so it's not any easier.

2. Game selection is dependent on hardware "structure", or it's "just" a matter of available "storage"?

There are seemingly a few restrictions (hypernoid, SSVSFE, the fixed Garou MOTW), but VTXCart will tell you a file is too large before you get around to flashing anything.

 

[Yami]

Thank you so much for your kind feedback.

You can stick to default storage available and not have to source a spare flashrom out of a donor cart. The entire process is 95% the same though, so it's not any easier.

But it would lower the cost a bit, if I understand correctly.
(Would custom PCBs or daughterboards still be needed?)

There are seemingly a few restrictions (hypernoid, SSVSFE, the fixed Garou MOTW), but VTXCart will tell you a file is too large before you get around to flashing anything.

For all the other titles, beyond the available space (how much would it be?) wouldn't there be any problems?

I ask these questions because IMHO it would be an equally valid and interesting product to be able to "choose" certain titles to one's taste (also considering the "redundancy" of many Neogeo series) if the modification became simpler and at lower costs. Personally I would be interested in a product of this type, sending my 161-in-1 for a simpler modification based on an agreed romset.

 

[rewrite]

But it would lower the cost a bit, if I understand correctly.

About $18 USD saved on the salvaged flashrom. Not huge, but not nothing. It is only about 20 minutes in work saved.

There's a 2GB limit (roundabout) if you're not adding in the extra flashrom. If there are problems with any games, no one seems to have run into them yet. I don't think anyone has painstakingly gone through the entire library and played through every game yet though either.

The time that is saved on soldering would be added in curating the game list. I don't think it'd be any cheaper really to limit the list. Certainly an option if doing it one's self and not wanting to shell out for another full cart to salvage one chip from though.

 

[Yami]

About $18 USD saved on the salvaged flashrom. Not huge, but not nothing. It is only about 20 minutes in work saved.

...and also in time to source additional parts.

If there are problems with any games, no one seems to have run into them yet. I don't think anyone has painstakingly gone through the entire library and played through every game yet though either.

I'm referring to the bugs of unmodified 161-in-1s (many titles don't work as they should, like Samurai Shodown).

The time that is saved on soldering would be added in curating the game list. I don't think it'd be any cheaper really to limit the list. Certainly an option if doing it one's self and not wanting to shell out for another full cart to salvage one chip from though.

The "customer" could prepare the software part (I could learn the software part, but I would never try my hand at desoldering) or just take the current 161-in-1 gameslist, but properly fixed as an alternative product.

I'm thinking out loud, just my two cents.

 

[AlxUnderBase]

Hello , @ack . Sir, i tried to add in jlcpcb the gerbers for main board & main dual board (neogeo-161in1-daughterboard-main.zip & neogeo-161in1-dual-daughterboard-main.zip) . They (jlcpcb & pcbway asked me to upload Gerber in RS-274-X format) . It's any other pcb manufacturers who can make them in the format you provided on github ?
Apologizez if is any mistake from my side

as exemple , this dual board works to be manufactured (if isnt any diffrence between this and the one they ask me to be RS-274-X format , i will use this , but still need single daughterboard) : https://www.arcade-projects.com/thr...rtridge-to-change-rom-games.15069/post-398743

 

[ack]

Hello , @ack . Sir, i tried to add in jlcpcb the gerbers for main board & main dual board (neogeo-161in1-daughterboard-main.zip & neogeo-161in1-dual-daughterboard-main.zip) . They (jlcpcb & pcbway asked me to upload Gerber in RS-274-X format) . It's any other pcb manufacturers who can make them in the format you provided on github ?
Apologizez if is any mistake from my side

as exemple , this dual board works to be manufactured (if isnt any diffrence between this and the one they ask me to be RS-274-X format , i will use this , but still need single daughterboard) : https://www.arcade-projects.com/thr...rtridge-to-change-rom-games.15069/post-398743

The git repo's contain the kicad project files. If you want the gerber files you need to download the release zip file

https://github.com/jwestfall69/neogeo-161in1-daughterboard/releases
https://github.com/jwestfall69/neogeo-161in1-dual-daughterboard/releases

 

[AlxUnderBase]

The git repo's contain the kicad project files. If you want the gerber files you need to download the release zip file

https://github.com/jwestfall69/neogeo-161in1-daughterboard/releases
https://github.com/jwestfall69/neogeo-161in1-dual-daughterboard/releases

Thank you alot ! This is the way how it works

 

[Misos]

Does the "E" in the TEST menu stand for "Error"? For example I get 1 with a C chip and 2 with a V chip.
If so is this normal or will it affect the programming?

 

[ack]

Does the "E" in the TEST menu stand for "Error"? For example I get 1 with a C chip and 2 with a V chip.
If so is this normal or will it affect the programming?

Yes, its indicating an error/issue. From what I understand those C/V chips are internally comprised of 4 sub chips. The TEST is checking if each of those sub chips has the correct ID value (0x88B0). When one doesn't match it increments the error count.

 

[zenzi]

Hi guys,
is there a full tutorial somewhere to perform a DIY?

 

[rewrite]

Hi guys,
is there a full tutorial somewhere to perform a DIY?

https://www.arcade-projects.com/thr...rtridge-to-change-rom-games.15069/post-396790

https://www.arcade-projects.com/thr...rtridge-to-change-rom-games.15069/post-396131

 

[Misos]

Yes, its indicating an error/issue. From what I understand those C/V chips are internally comprised of 4 sub chips. The TEST is checking if each of those sub chips has the correct ID value (0x88B0). When one doesn't match it increments the error count.

I see. Thank you. There's definitely something wrong then. I think it could be the stock daughter board because I reflowed the pins on the C-chip and it does not report any errors anymore.

I will order a new daughter board. I have a spare non-working cart that I can use for chips, fortunately.

 

[GeorgeSpinner]

How will soft dips work with this cart?

Will they need to be set every time you start a game? Or will they be stored in memory (sram)?

Is there a default setting? I know on the original 161 in 1 they were all set to something like 8 (very hard).

This may have already been mentioned in a way I didn't understand.

 

[ack]

How will soft dips work with this cart?

Will they need to be set every time you start a game? Or will they be stored in memory (sram)?

Is there a default setting? I know on the original 161 in 1 they were all set to something like 8 (very hard).

This may have already been mentioned in a way I didn't understand.

Saving/restoring soft dips isnt supported

 

[GeorgeSpinner]

Saving/restoring soft dips isnt supported

I know with the 161 in 1 it stored the settings and not the MVS.

The settings will not be stored in the MVS either? Meaning normal operation for an MVS cart is not consistent on this cart.

Just trying to make sure I understand.

 

[ack]

I know with the 161 in 1 it stored the settings and not the MVS.

That functionality hasn't been implemented. Logic will need to be added to the prog CPLD and likely code changes to the menu system rom. I don't think anyone has worked on this.

The settings will not be stored in the MVS either? Meaning normal operation for an MVS cart is not consistent on this cart.

It looks like every time you pick a game in the menu it clears out the softdips (maybe all of backup ram?). This causes the selected game to use its default softdip values when it boots.

 

[kuze]

If those things were added then I guess that would bring back pick n mix based on earlier responses?

 

[GeorgeSpinner]

That functionality hasn't been implemented. Logic will need to be added to the prog CPLD and likely code changes to the menu system rom. I don't think anyone has worked on this.



It looks like every time you pick a game in the menu it clears out the softdips (maybe all of backup ram?). This causes the selected game to use its default softdip values when it boots.

Thanks. I understood about 161 in 1 save functionally being missing. I just mentioned the functionality to better ask the question.

This cart will not be good for anyone that cares about high scores. Some people are pretty concerned with high scores, so this is good to know.

I mildly care (only about Turf Masters really) but I have plenty of MVS boards. I will just use it with an MVS board that is dedicated to this cart.

This may also have been asked - is there anything that would prevent this cart from working without unibios? I'm guessing it works fine without unibios but thought I'd ask.

 

[ack]

This may also have been asked - is there anything that would prevent this cart from working without unibios? I'm guessing it works fine without unibios but thought I'd ask.

It should work fine on a stock bios.