Reverse engineering 161 in 1 cartridge to change Rom games

It would be better if the Chinese manufacturers of the 161 in 1 just took the work here and made them correct to begin with.

Kind of hard to take an existing product that's been made the same way for >15 years and make it more expensive. Price >>> quality for vast resellers on AliExpress/eBay/Amazon. Unfortunately true for most buyers.

This is why V3 isn't made any more. V2 is an older design that uses cheaper flash memory. Want to keep the price low and volume steady.
 
It would be better if the Chinese manufacturers of the 161 in 1 just took the work here and made them correct to begin with.
The main goal of most people is to produce quickly. They are not cautious enough about product quality and try to cut corners wherever possible to reduce costs. Maybe the technology is not mature enough and there is no better solution. No one is willing to waste time on outdated interactive game consoles.
 
Kind of hard to take an existing product that's been made the same way for >15 years and make it more expensive. Price >>> quality for vast resellers on AliExpress/eBay/Amazon. Unfortunately true for most buyers.

This is why V3 isn't made any more. V2 is an older design that uses cheaper flash memory. Want to keep the price low and volume steady.
I have found the supplier for the flash memory of v3. There are several thousand used ones and several hundred brand new ones. What you said is indeed true. I remember that in 2023, the price of a large quantity of brand new v3 models was less than 50 US dollars. But many buyers still negotiated the price down to 40 dollars. Everyone wants both low cost and high quality, and these two are clearly in conflict. Reverse cloning of v3 seems quite simple. I also asked about the injection mold for the shell, and it was very expensive! It's difficult to bear the cost if not for large-scale production. If there is a better design scheme, I can arrange for production. Sales will be limited to forum members.
 
I have found the supplier for the flash memory of v3. There are several thousand used ones and several hundred brand new ones. What you said is indeed true. I remember that in 2023, the price of a large quantity of brand new v3 models was less than 50 US dollars. But many buyers still negotiated the price down to 40 dollars. Everyone wants both low cost and high quality, and these two are clearly in conflict. Reverse cloning of v3 seems quite simple. I also asked about the injection mold for the shell, and it was very expensive! It's difficult to bear the cost if not for large-scale production. If there is a better design scheme, I can arrange for production. Sales will be limited to forum members.
You can always 3d print an MVS shell if that's the most expensive part https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads/3d-printed-neo-geo-mvs-cartridge.32495/
 
Browsing AliExpress I've found at least a vendor that offered shells IIRC at 11 dollars at piece and they didn't looked refurbished.

Maybe you can track the source...
 
Anyone who has the older V2 cart that uses the STILTs (like Vortex's own cart per pictures he posted) you can convert those to a Vortex All-in-1 cart. You don't need a V3 cart. The only added complexity is the STILTs. Here's what you need:

1. PCB adapter to support the F0095H0 (CROM1, CROM2, VROM) - Gerbers: https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/VFKO0LfW
2. Flex adapter to support the F0095H0 (CROM3) Use flex for easier overlap install (see picture below - there's 2 chips there if you look carefully) and isolate OE1/OE2/OE3/OE4 between CROM1 and CROM3
3. Wire OE1/OE2/OE3/OE4 on CROM3 to the FPGA no different than V3

With this method, you will have no space issues on AES.

Don't bother using the STILT programmer PCBs Vortex published. His Gerbers have a mistake and 1/2 the chip won't program due to write protect being triggered. Program in pogo pin adapter or in V3 adapter.

NOTE: This does not apply to the latest "V2" carts sold right now. Those are V4 carts with PROM being an F0095H0.
Do you still have the gerbers? The link is dead.
 
Browsing AliExpress I've found at least a vendor that offered shells IIRC at 11 dollars at piece and they didn't looked refurbished.

Maybe you can track the source...
I bought a few of these a while back as some shells for carts I've picked up have been wrecked over time and tbh, they're decent. Esp for the <£10 or so they're going for now.
 
Has this ever been done? Was the CPU swap successful?

What i did was to desolder the original CPU and to install the socket in the aes console . I didnt did other tests or such , but i asked @jj1929 to tell how this works and he said :

“This worked but it is tied to the unibios”

“
Old CPU + stock bios = glitches
New CPU + stock bios = glitches
New CPU + unibios = no glitches
“
 
What i did was to desolder the original CPU and to install the socket in the aes console . I didnt did other tests or such , but i asked @jj1929 to tell how this works and he said :

“This worked but it is tied to the unibios”

“
Old CPU + stock bios = glitches
New CPU + stock bios = glitches
New CPU + unibios = no glitches
“

Thanks!

I can also add to that: "Old CPU + unibios = glitches"

Looks like my theory of it being tied to the CPU was correct. All MVS PCBs use a Motorola CPU, they never have glitches. Toshiba CPUs seem to be solid (what I have) It's the Hitachi CPUs that have all the issues.

Do you know what CPU was used in this test? Motorola or Toshiba? I don't think AES ever sold with Motorola CPUs.
 
Thanks!

I can also add to that: "Old CPU + unibios = glitches"

Looks like my theory of it being tied to the CPU was correct. All MVS PCBs use a Motorola CPU, they never have glitches. Toshiba CPUs seem to be solid (what I have) It's the Hitachi CPUs that have all the issues.

Do you know what CPU was used in this test? Motorola or Toshiba? I don't think AES ever sold with Motorola CPUs.
Thanks for your help @leonk!

As @AlxUnderBase mentioned, he socketed the CPU and bios on my AES. Testing the new replacement CPU with the stock bios showed the same glitches. I then swapped from the stock bios to the unibios and no glitches appeared.

To answer your question, I swapped from a Hitachi CPU to a Toshiba CPU.
 
What i did was to desolder the original CPU and to install the socket in the aes console . I didnt did other tests or such , but i asked @jj1929 to tell how this works and he said :

“This worked but it is tied to the unibios”

“
Old CPU + stock bios = glitches
New CPU + stock bios = glitches
New CPU + unibios = no glitches
“
Hmm, I wonder if this is the issue with the neosd on my AES 3-6.
 
@leonk @DeathWalk

I received the cart a couple of weeks ago. I had a problem with my MVS boards, but leonk helped me and gave me support. Finally, all works great with the all-in-one.

Thank you!

I can't stress enough how much testing goes into every cart before they go out. Shipping international is expensive and frustrating if something goes wrong. MVS was not made for home use. They were commercial products that spent years powered on and many times, neglected. All failures I've seen in the past 2 years have been a result of the MVS board, and not the cart; even when original carts seem to work.

Thanks for the kind words and enjoy the cart!

Pulling this over from your sale thread, didn't want to clutter it with conversation, maybe just to sate my curiosity or for someone's possible future troubleshooting benefit, could you briefly say what the issue and fix was that you're referring to here?
 
@leonk @DeathWalk





Pulling this over from your sale thread, didn't want to clutter it with conversation, maybe just to sate my curiosity or for someone's possible future troubleshooting benefit, could you briefly say what the issue and fix was that you're referring to here?
In my 2 MV1F boards, when I launch some games (always the same games), the game boots, and then a memory error splash appears. Then, just pressing C, the games boot correctly. I checked with a friend's board, he doesn't have any problems (MV1B), and finally I bought another MV1F and booted all games perfectly, so it looks like somewhere my boards have a problem.
 
Pulling this over from your sale thread, didn't want to clutter it with conversation, maybe just to sate my curiosity or for someone's possible future troubleshooting benefit, could you briefly say what the issue and fix was that you're referring to here?

I've had another customer that had memory splash appear only some games, but not others. Given he was local to me, I had him ship the cart and PCB back to me (he had an MV1C). I ended installing a DIAG ROM into the MVS and it found 2 bad VRAM chips. When I swapped those 2 chips everything started working correctly.

Some games are more complex than others. Just because Puzzle Bobble works on the MVS doesn't mean all games will. Unfortunately, not everyone is setup to run DIAG ROM on their PCB to make sure they have a known good platform to run games on.

So when you start using this new cart and things fail, the assumption is it's the cart; when it's been my experience that it's a PCB having some failure that's been hidden all this time.
 
Neo Geo carts definitely have a lot more potential points of failure than say typical consumer SNES or MD carts. That said, I've realized they are tough as hell compared to PGM carts. Those things have tons of little ceramic caps on the boards, and are just a failure waiting to happen.
 
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