Universal monitor bracket for Vewlix

[hoagtech]

since people are talking about input lag: I tested the 32mp58hq with a time sleuth and it adds about 2ms over a crt (iirc 9ms in the center which is where rtings measures afaik. remember that crts have 7-8ms lag when measured in the center!). it’s ridiculously good, probably better than all stock monitors lol

edit: sounds like the 32MA70HY-P is just about the same. seems like a great choice if you're not looking to spend a ton of money. It probably won't have any black bars at all if it's like the 32mp58hq, there is no '1:1' scaling option on that monitor, only aspect ratio options. I can say that 4x output stretched to 4:3 1080p looks pretty good, 1440p would look better of course, but it'll do.

You got your lines mixed a little there.

4x outputs natively at a 1080p signal. There would be little to no chance of “stretching” the image as the OSSC outputs the black bars at 1080p and has a viewable 960p image.

960 has a thick border when displaying over 1080p.

If for seem weird reason the set ignores black bar content and stretches that would be a deal breaker as improper scaling would occur.

Your image would share pixels unevenly as well as uneven scanlines.

The reason 1440 is magical is because at 6x there are no borders on a 240 image at 1:6.

I’m not sure if 6x is available on the current OSSC but will definately be supported on the OSSC pro release.

Another benefit of 720p is that a lot of newer arcade hardware outputs at 720p and would not have to internally scaled to 1.5 to output full screen over 1080p.

Hope that helps

 

[Kaede]

any monitor will do just fine, I doubt any of those monitors were high end to begin with and they're very old at this point.

now what's up with ps4 games looking ugly on 1440p screens?

 

[PARTY MAN X]

since people are talking about input lag: I tested the 32mp58hq with a time sleuth and it adds about 2ms over a crt (iirc 9ms in the center which is where rtings measures afaik. remember that crts have 7-8ms lag when measured in the center!). it’s ridiculously good, probably better than all stock monitors lol

edit: sounds like the 32MA70HY-P is just about the same. seems like a great choice if you're not looking to spend a ton of money. It probably won't have any black bars at all if it's like the 32mp58hq, there is no '1:1' scaling option on that monitor, only aspect ratio options. I can say that 4x output stretched to 4:3 1080p looks pretty good, 1440p would look better of course, but it'll do.

You got your lines mixed a little there.
4x outputs natively at a 1080p signal. There would be little to no chance of “stretching” the image as the OSSC outputs the black bars at 1080p and has a viewable 960p image.

960 has a thick border when displaying over 1080p.

If for seem weird reason the set ignores black bar content and stretches that would be a deal breaker as improper scaling would occur.

Your image would share pixels unevenly as well as uneven scanlines.

the ossc definitely outputs 240p 4x as 960p. you may be thinking of the 5x behavior that outputs 1080p. it looks okay in my experience. it's honestly really hard to notice the interpolated lines/columns. Even when it's dialed in pixel perfect, I don't notice.

 

[hoagtech]

any monitor will do just fine, I doubt any of those monitors were high end to begin with and they're very old at this point.

now what's up with ps4 games looking ugly on 1440p screens?

Most games even on the pro output at either upscaled 720p output at 1080p or 1080p with some 4K sequences here and there.

1080 vertical scaled to 1440 is an uneven integer. 1:1.33

Playing native output resolution with native res of your monitor is always gonna be your best bet

Playing native Rez on even integer scaling will be second best bet but will throw your pixel array from the shape of your RGB pixel array into a perfect square when it’s scaled which will make your output more jagged than native.

I would prefer jagged even over uneven pixel landing personally.

 

[Kaede]

hmm i'm going to have to do a few tests then.

 

[Aurich]

any monitor will do just fine

If you feel that way that's cool, you do you. I strongly disagree, but nobody has to get my permission or anything to modify their cabs!

Putting a laggy monitor in an arcade cabinet is gross to me, I'd never trade lag just for a "nicer" picture. Responsiveness is way more important.

10ms is fine, if that's what these LGs are then great. Anything less than a frame is cool. Plenty of monitors at that size are a lot worse, you can't just assume. Why I have a Time Sleuth.

 

[hoagtech]

What @Aurich said.

Do your research and find the input lag.

By the way what is the stock input lag on the 720p monitor..


Since you have that timesleuth handy?.

I would love to know. After hearing about the Wei-ya PSU I’d like to know what other parts they used on each model

 

[jassin000]

By the way what is the stock input lag on the 720p monitor

@Derick2k tested these for us years ago and posted the results, I just can't seem to find it atm.
While I can't recall the hard numbers, I remember being shocked at how high it was.

 

[Derick2k]

By the way what is the stock input lag on the 720p monitor

@Derick2k tested these for us years ago and posted the results, I just can't seem to find it atm.While I can't recall the hard numbers, I remember being shocked at how high it was.

Gotta look through, we should sticky post those somewhere.

 

[Aurich]

By the way what is the stock input lag on the 720p monitor..


Since you have that timesleuth handy?.

I tried to check when I got them, but it doesn't work through the cab's front glass. Won't pick up a reading. On my list to try next time I take the monitor out, but you know how that goes, hardly something I'm itching to do lol. I do need to disassemble one for cleaning.

Only reason I want to check is because I have the Blue Diamond IPS monitors, and I'm not sure if we have a reading for them.

The best I could do was shoot a video in slow motion of the Time Sleuth bars mirrored to a known 2ms monitor (as measured from the top) and try and compare the bars refreshing. My estimation is there's an extra frame of lag on the Vewlixes, but it's pretty rough, would prefer real numbers.

The stock monitors are okay, but not great. You can definitely do better with a modern panel. Only just preaching the word of making sure you really are, and not just taking whatever fits. Get some 40ms panel in there and it's gonna be sad days. Some monitors have a lot of processing before they show the signal.

 

[mikaeltarquin]

Has anyone considered the BenQ EW3270U? It's 4K, so 1080p stuff like consoles should scale well, while still allowing lots of room to grow for PC games. It's "only" 60 Hz, but so are any fighting games, and with FreeSync that should give good compatibility with classic gaming refresh rates and OSSC stuff. It's a VA panel, but unlike most VA has decent viewing angles, and is better than some others for dark rooms (like an arcade environment ought to be!). And input lag is under 11ms (at least for 4K. Doesn't seem like they tested 1080p or other resolutions). Guess the big unknowns would be 1080p performance and compatibility with the mount.

 

[harih]

Has anyone considered the BenQ EW3270U? It's 4K, so 1080p stuff like consoles should scale well, while still allowing lots of room to grow for PC games. It's "only" 60 Hz, but so are any fighting games, and with FreeSync that should give good compatibility with classic gaming refresh rates and OSSC stuff. It's a VA panel, but unlike most VA has decent viewing angles, and is better than some others for dark rooms (like an arcade environment ought to be!). And input lag is under 11ms (at least for 4K. Doesn't seem like they tested 1080p or other resolutions). Guess the big unknowns would be 1080p performance and compatibility with the mount.

I can't find any measurements of height without the base, but I was able to find width and depth. Width-wise it's comparable to the LG 32MA70HY-P (which is identical in measurements to the two other LGs with similar names -- they all appear to be yearly updates of the same monitor) and depth is 2.4" so it's around the same depth as the Samsung U32J590/UJ59 and LG 32GK650F-B that've been tested according to this Google sheet.


Based on all that, I think it should be safe -- but no way to actually test it myself.

 

[Aurich]

Just to stick with the theme of lag, keep in mind that any time you're running a panel at a non-native resolution it's gotta scale, and that can add lag.

 

[jassin000]

Yup just what @Aurich said... Feeding a panel a non-native resolution will cause it to use its internal scaler to achieve native output.
This adds to processing time (lag) in most cases as well as improper handling of "pixel" artwork at low input resolutions (artifacts/shimmer).

I would only recommend a 4K replacement to someone who was looking specfically for 4K support as its primary use.
If you are going to be switching around, OR have an OSSC (current or Pro) as a primary, 1440p is a more logical choice.

 

[Kaede]

ohh crap i was liking the idea of installing the 32GK650F-B monitor on my vewlix but since i'm mainly going to be playing ps3/ps4/360 games on it i'm a little concerned about this graphic/lag issue.

 

[Aurich]

i'm mainly going to be playing ps3/ps4/360 games on it

You want a 1080p panel then.

There's no reason to seek higher resolutions just because the numbers are "better", you won't get any benefit from it with those consoles. Native rez will look better.

 

[mikaeltarquin]

i'm mainly going to be playing ps3/ps4/360 games on it

You want a 1080p panel then.
There's no reason to seek higher resolutions just because the numbers are "better", you won't get any benefit from it with those consoles. Native rez will look better.

Right, and that's the issue I'm trying to sort through. If I want to switch between consoles and PC, you want to find something that has minimal lag at all resolutions and good scaling. 1080p doesn't scale so well to 1440p, giving things a soft appearance. 4K is a 2:1 integer scale of 1080p, so the only softness that occurs is every other pixel, depending on what kind of interpolation is used (it's very unusual for any OEM to provide nearest neighbor, so you usually have to deal with some kind of bilinear filtering). But since the pixels are so small, this filtering isn't usually nearly as egregious as it was in the 240p or 480i to 1080p days. For that you of course need a proper scaler, like an OSSC.

Lag due to scaling isn't a showstopper, though. Yes, there will be some, but many panels scale 1080p to 4K with very little lag. For example, the LG B9 has 13.7 ms of lag at 4K 60 Hz, and 13.8 ms at 1080p 60 Hz. That's imperceptibly different. So, if you could find a 32 inch 4K display that had these kind of stats or better at 1080p, I feel like that would be ideal.

Edit: I suspect that the lag due to scaling is probably overblown, at least with most modern computer monitors. I just hooked my Time Sleuth to my monitor (an AW3418DW 1440p ultrawide), and at 1080p it was around 14 ms in the center of the screen. The Time Sleuth doesn't have a 1440p option, but Rtings shows 1440p @ 60 Hz as being 12.8 ms, so a 1.2 ms difference. I would be willing to bet that holds for many current displays.

 

[rewrite]

It's "only" 60 Hz, but so are any fighting games

This... this is just the grossest misunderstanding as to how monitor refresh rates work.

It's too much to explain in this small space. But it has nooooothing to do with how the game work.

Please do research. The frequency at which games sync and the speed at which monitors refresh are not remotely related to one another. You will ALWAYS benefit by having higher refresh rates on the screen. Always.

 

[hoagtech]

4K is a 2:1 integer scale of 1080p, so the only softness that occurs is every other pixel

Not quite. It makes it sharper

This is the shape of a single pixel array. Notice the bulbous and soft form. It’s easy on the eyes



This is the shape of a 2x integer scaled pixel array.
The bulbous arrays create a perfect square and is much sharper looking than a native pixel array


Why someone would want to highlight 1080p support over 4K is beyond me as my favorite games are 15 kHz and 31khz. Most widescreen titles don’t natively output at 1080p usually 720p and 480p widescreen.

And granted their are some decent arcade titles on consoles, but preferring to play console titles on an arcade sounds like a tweakers task every time you load a title and configure controls.

 

[PARTY MAN X]

This... this is just the grossest misunderstanding as to how monitor refresh rates work.
It's too much to explain in this small space. But it has nooooothing to do with how the game work.

Please do research. The frequency at which games sync and the speed at which monitors refresh are not remotely related to one another. You will ALWAYS benefit by having higher refresh rates on the screen. Always.

Please explain, especially your last point. As far as I understand it, if your input signal is 60hz (at least over DVI/HDMI), the frame will always finish scanning at a minimum of ~16ms. While some displays scan faster (not all! I've owned a 144hz BenQ that scanned like a 60hz monitor when given a 60hz signal), they're still limited by the signal coming in. Am I misunderstanding how HDMI/DVI works, or am I missing something else?

This is the shape of a 2x integer scaled pixel array.
The bulbous arrays create a perfect square and is much sharper looking than a native pixel array

The problem is that displays still perform a bilinear filter even when scaling a multiple of their native resolution, so every other pixel (in the best case. worst case is if the display samples everything but the center of a pixel) is a mixture of the pixels around it. 1080p signals are noticeably soft/blurry looking on 4k displays. Until we have a 1080p line doubler, we'll be at the mercy of built-in scalers.