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Gunbird 2 Audio Improvement [WIP, help wanted]

djsheep said:
DDP has always been quite “harsh” sound wise. Guwange is the worse out of them all.

Gunbird 2. The audio is just as horrible on a Supergun. I almost want to sell this board because of it.
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Yeah, I got lucky with my GB2, but man, my SA2... its unplayable! I still need to recap before I get rid of it!

I think this series will be coming to MiSTer sooner rather than later, so maybe that's the way to go with it.
 
I started looking into the datasheets for the part n the audio section, dont have a board handy, but starting with the amp, I would increase the size of the 2200uF cap to reduce ripple from the psu. Also, there should be caps/resistors on pins 8/15, those help reduce signal noise. Pins 10/14 should have caps for feedback signals to improve frequency response. I would look at the caps feeding power to the amp first as the probable cause of the hum/interference. Also, there should be coupling caps at the inputs to the amp, those also help reduce noise as well.

Ill look at the other components when I get a chance and when I pull a couple of these boards Ill look to see if I have the same issues and do some testing.
 
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@Derick2k glad for the help. My shot-in-the-dark replacements yield a much improved sound over the original, but with a multi coming it’s worth finding a true solution.
 
ekorz said:
@Derick2k glad for the help. My shot-in-the-dark replacements yield a much improved sound over the original, but with a multi coming it’s worth finding a true solution.
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Agree, when I get the boards out I will do some circuit tracing and see whats going where and compare the 2 and see what they did; hopefully helps to isolate what could be the noise/hum cause(s).
 
Can someone that has these boards, take hi res pics of the audio section (with readable IC part number would be great) this will help me until I get my boards. If anyone has cheap board with the sound issue they want to sell me that would also help. I was looking for my boards and there are just too many in too many bins lol, I should auction off all the bins. I think I have a Tengai that may have issues is ill also look at.

I have these 4 boards but haven't experience the sound issue, but maybe I wasn't really paying attention to it:
Strikers 1945 II
Strikers 1945 III/ Strikers 1999
Gunbird 2
Gunbarich

I still think the culprit might be the amp though, unless someone has tested the sound section and has found nice further up the line to other components.

Anyway here are some pics of the sections:

PS3
Games:
Sol Divide
Strikers 1945 II
Space Bomber Ver.B (c)1998
Daraku Tenshi - The Fallen Angels (c)1998
PS3.jpg


PS5
Gunbird 2
Strikers 1999 / Strikers 1945 III
PS5.jpg


PS5 V2
Dragon Blaze
Tetris The Grand Master 2
Tetris The Grand Master 2 Plus
GunBarich
Mahjong G-Taste
PS5 V2.jpg
 
I have a few PS3 and PS5 but can only take pictures later tonight.

If until then no one can help, i will upload them later tonight. Thank you for your work.
 
Derick2k said:
I still think the culprit might be the amp though, unless someone has tested the sound section and has found nice further up the line to other components.
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Gunbird 2 and Strikers 3 are the only two games on the "PS5" PCB they use the same amp but have unique DAC between the sound CPU and the AMP. the PCB was designed to support two types (either or). It's arguable that you could depopulate the Gunbird 2 DAC setup and repopulate with the Strikers 3 setup. But that DAC setup is where the differences (and the Gunbird 2 buzzing) comes from.
 
_rm_ said:
I have a few PS3 and PS5 but can only take pictures later tonight.

If until then no one can help, i will upload them later tonight. Thank you for your work.
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When you can, no rush. Thanks for the help.
 
twistedsymphony said:
Gunbird 2 and Strikers 3 are the only two games on the "PS5" PCB they use the same amp but have unique DAC between the sound CPU and the AMP. the PCB was designed to support two types (either or). It's arguable that you could depopulate the Gunbird 2 DAC setup and repopulate with the Strikers 3 setup. But that DAC setup is where the differences (and the Gunbird 2 buzzing) comes from.
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Thanks Mike, he said the sound improved, but the issue was still present. Which I think could just be a filtering issue somewhere; I ll be l'll be looking into DACS/Opamps as well, etc once I get the boards out and hooked them up to my scope/analyzer. Its been a while and I didn't care to really get back into troubleshooting electronics, etc..but what the hell, Ive been doing a lot of schematic/pcb work lately so.... jumping back in and this seems like good little project to refresh my memory.

Also need to pull my Tengai board to see whats there since that was also discussed as having noise issues.

Who wants to go to my storage units and dig out some pcbs :D
 
Derick2k said:
Also need to pull my Tengai board to see whats there since that was also discussed as having noise issues.
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I think Tengai might be a component quality issue, AFAIK there is no different in the circuit or the chips used on that game compared to other "PS3" titles. Mine definitely does have the buzzing though.

the "PS5" board is AFAIK the only board that has the optional DAC setup... I believe the Gunbird 2 DAC configuration is similar to the PS3 and the Strikers 3 DAC config is similar to the "PS5 v2" This is based on a quick glance at a chip level, I haven't dug in to see if there are any differences in the actual circuit or passive components used.
 
I'm not sure we need pictures of Tengai or any other board really. That Game's audio issues are likely a discussion for another topic.
 
twistedsymphony said:
I think Tengai might be a component quality issue, AFAIK there is no different in the circuit or the chips used on that game compared to other "PS3" titles. Mine definitely does have the buzzing though.

the "PS5" board is AFAIK the only board that has the optional DAC setup... I believe the Gunbird 2 DAC configuration is similar to the PS3 and the Strikers 3 DAC config is similar to the "PS5 v2" This is based on a quick glance at a chip level, I haven't dug in to see if there are any differences in the actual circuit or passive components used.
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Im looking into the mame board layouts and comparing the dacs they used so this should help until I pull the boards. The common component is the 513, between the GB2 and the Tengai. I wonder if the other boards on the PS3 hardware have a similar issues since they use the 513 as well. Only other common IC is the amp. Anyone have issues with PS5 V2 boards?

_rm_ said:
I also have Tengai. Since twistedsymphony already posted GB2 vs Strikers 3, what other pictures do you need?
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Nothing else, for now. If you want, hook up your boards and see if you have audio issues.
 
twistedsymphony said:
I've not any any audio issues on other PS3 or PS5V2 boards.
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So might be down to just bad components, instead of a systemic issue. or possibly some filtering caps/resistor changes might do the trick/help. Im hoping to get some boards with audio issues, thanks.
 
I think tengai might just be a wrong or poor quality component from the factory during production. Gunbird2 might be the same thing but it also might be a design issue.
 
I have my games at my parents house, but managed to find old photos when I recapped them.

Tengai sound section
1A3250D1-A34C-4808-A1DE-6070D5180E38.jpg


Picture of the board without caps
5A8FDC46-A549-434A-9AA2-AFB16FA73C65.jpg


Another angle
IMG_9557.jpeg


Here is my Gunbird 2 Sound section (with new caps)
IMG_1111.jpeg


Here is the full GB2 board
IMG_1110D.JPG


EDIT: Found some more pics where you can see GB2 component place numbers
IMG_1109.jpeg

IMG_1108D.JPG


Hope any of them helps :D
 
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