NEOGEO + AES Multigame cartridge - NEW POLL INCLUDED. PLEASE VOTE!

[Niko]

Darksoft, lets say we go with the FPGA option. How would one be able to set the softdips per game?

Not sure yet. What do you propose?

Unfortunately I dont know enough to say. I was just thinking about it last night. From what I understand the system needs to reboot in order for the BIOS to detect the game change and update the softdips accordingly. Also with Uni-Bios ( cant remember if its the same for regular BIOS ) you have to boot the game once then reset the system to be able to modify the Softdips. So in the case of the FPGA version, the game would have to be selected, then reset, then reset again to modify the soft dips.

I guess a file for each game could work so long as you can edit the softdips in the menu and have it saved to the file. But a file with each games specific softdips would need to be created.

 

[Fygee]

In order to do the cycling you will have to patch in support for extra buttons and whatnot in the game.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Just because the Chinese did stuff one way doesn't mean we have to do it that way.
The whole reason we thought to do a four game type of thing is to emulate the multi-slot cabinets which was the single coolest thing that separated Neo cabinets from other arcade games when they first came out. I have a 6-slot cabinet and sometimes I like to just turn it on and cycle through all of the games installed to watch the individual mini marquees light up as I hit the game select button.

Plus we want this cart to be different than the current multis in more than just game availability.

Let's not forget how happy this would make AES and CMVS owners who are limited to a single cart.

 

[jassin000]

Yes please do the dip and highscore save to a file on the sd and restore at boot!

Softdips were the biggest problem in owning both a 161 and VMU Omega... You can't use reset button combo with memory card inserted, VMU Omega has memory card built in!!!!!!!1

 

[Niko]

Yes please do the dip and highscore save to a file on the sd and restore at boot!

Softdips were the biggest problem in owning both a 161 and VMU Omega... You can't use reset button combo with memory card inserted, VMU Omega has memory card built in!!!!!!!1

What reset button combo are you talking about??

 

[jassin000]

What reset button combo are you talking about??

To return to the menu of the yellow China made 161 cart you need to hold a button combo.
I'm sure it was considered a "feature" by its designers, but the reset button combo will not trigger with a memory card inserted.

VMU Omega can not (easily) have its memory card removed, hence I could never load a game and return to the menu without a power cycle.

Then you have to do another softdip set reset cycle... Its just a poor design, and if possible this idea sounds like a winner!

 

[XianXi]

If you could use 2 SD cards instead of one, one on the PROG and one on the CHA, would there be any kind of advantage compared to a single SD card? Would there still need the be communication between the two PCBs? I just don't know how these flash/FPGA things really work.

 

[Darksoft]

Thanks for your answers Pablo !

Someone opted a pin header to attach a cable too when they have the MVS motherboard stored inside the cab.
Maybe that same pin header could be used to add a simple button that would get you in the menu to choose another game to load for those that have the MVS motherboard within easy reach ?
The button should come with the cart and maybe 2 extra connectors too so those that want to extend the reach can just take some cables at their desired length to attach it to the 2 extra connectors and plug that between the pin header on the cart and the button.
That way there won't be a special key combination needed and for the AES version the same circuit can be used for the reset button I suppose.

I'm still thinking about the different versions, voted for option 2.
I might change it to 1 but I still fail to see the added benefit of having 4 games loaded at start when it only takes 10 seconds to load up another one.
The only thing I can think of is for those that have a NeoGeo cab with the 4 marquees and have them highlighted according to the active game but doesn't that need extra cables and a connector to plug into the MVS multislot motherboard ?
Maybe someone can convince me why this would be a good idea ?

I like the button idea. Maybe MVS can come with a pin header for the button and AES can use the RESET button....

If you could use 2 SD cards instead of one, one on the PROG and one on the CHA, would there be any kind of advantage compared to a single SD card? Would there still need the be communication between the two PCBs? I just don't know how these flash/FPGA things really work.

no, that wouldn't speed up the job. The bottleneck are the flashes in version 2 and in version 1 that would mean adding an extra FPGA which will add complexity and cost to the project.

 

[K405]

I'm still thinking about the different versions, voted for option 2.

I might change it to 1 but I still fail to see the added benefit of having 4 games loaded at start when it only takes 10 seconds to load up another one.

Huh? You mean 20 to max 75 seconds with the flash version because that's what you will be getting with option 2.

OPTION 1

FPGA option will cost below $400. It will come with already soldered DDR memories. Will not support any battery but instead, it will write 4 small files in the microSD so when you boot up it will load whatever was loaded when you switched off back to the DDR memories. It can hold up to 4 games simultaneously. Loading time per game is 10 secs. MAX, so about 40 secs in total. It uses QUAD SPI so it reads at top speed from microSD.


OPTION 2
raditional option will cost about $350 and will be as usual holding just one game in the flashes. Loading time per game varies from 20 seconds to maximum 75 seconds.

Having 4 games loaded at once means you can cycle through them (4 favorites?) instantly without waiting for the ROM to load.. I don't get why people don't see this as the most convenient and user friendly way. And if you only want 1 game it will take 10 seconds to load (albeit it is with each power cycle) instead of 20 to 75 seconds. (If you are only interested in 1 game at a time then option 2 is the best for you)

 

[Niko]

I'm still thinking about the different versions, voted for option 2.

I might change it to 1 but I still fail to see the added benefit of having 4 games loaded at start when it only takes 10 seconds to load up another one.

Huh? You mean 20 to max 75 seconds with the flash version because that's what you will be getting with option 2.

OPTION 1

FPGA option will cost below $400. It will come with already soldered DDR memories. Will not support any battery but instead, it will write 4 small files in the microSD so when you boot up it will load whatever was loaded when you switched off back to the DDR memories. It can hold up to 4 games simultaneously. Loading time per game is 10 secs. MAX, so about 40 secs in total. It uses QUAD SPI so it reads at top speed from microSD.


OPTION 2
raditional option will cost about $350 and will be as usual holding just one game in the flashes. Loading time per game varies from 20 seconds to maximum 75 seconds.

Having 4 games loaded at once means you can cycle through them (4 favorites?) instantly without waiting for the ROM to load.. I don't get why people don't see this as the most convenient and user friendly way. And if you only want 1 game it will take 10 seconds to load (albeit it is with each power cycle) instead of 20 to 75 seconds. (If you are only interested in 1 game at a time then option 2 is the best for you)

Because it adds alot of extra complexity, possible issues, and maybe needing to further patch games to work.

While I have complete faith in Darksoft and whomever he has helping him; There is no way to say that the "virtual 4 slot" isnt going to break something down the line. Whether that be in a software patch for each and every game, or in the handling of the softdips, etc.

 

[K405]

I'm still thinking about the different versions, voted for option 2.

I might change it to 1 but I still fail to see the added benefit of having 4 games loaded at start when it only takes 10 seconds to load up another one.

Huh? You mean 20 to max 75 seconds with the flash version because that's what you will be getting with option 2.

OPTION 1

FPGA option will cost below $400. It will come with already soldered DDR memories. Will not support any battery but instead, it will write 4 small files in the microSD so when you boot up it will load whatever was loaded when you switched off back to the DDR memories. It can hold up to 4 games simultaneously. Loading time per game is 10 secs. MAX, so about 40 secs in total. It uses QUAD SPI so it reads at top speed from microSD.


OPTION 2
raditional option will cost about $350 and will be as usual holding just one game in the flashes. Loading time per game varies from 20 seconds to maximum 75 seconds.

Having 4 games loaded at once means you can cycle through them (4 favorites?) instantly without waiting for the ROM to load.. I don't get why people don't see this as the most convenient and user friendly way. And if you only want 1 game it will take 10 seconds to load (albeit it is with each power cycle) instead of 20 to 75 seconds. (If you are only interested in 1 game at a time then option 2 is the best for you)

Because it adds alot of extra complexity, possible issues, and maybe needing to further patch games to work.
While I have complete faith in Darksoft and whomever he has helping him; There is no way to say that the "virtual 4 slot" isnt going to break something down the line. Whether that be in a software patch for each and every game, or in the handling of the softdips, etc.

You are contradicting yourself by first saying you have complete faith and in the next phrase you are doubting whether or not it will ever work properly. So what if the ROM's need patching? They need to be manipulated anyway in any of the 2 versions.

 

[Niko]

I'm still thinking about the different versions, voted for option 2.

I might change it to 1 but I still fail to see the added benefit of having 4 games loaded at start when it only takes 10 seconds to load up another one.

Huh? You mean 20 to max 75 seconds with the flash version because that's what you will be getting with option 2.

OPTION 1

FPGA option will cost below $400. It will come with already soldered DDR memories. Will not support any battery but instead, it will write 4 small files in the microSD so when you boot up it will load whatever was loaded when you switched off back to the DDR memories. It can hold up to 4 games simultaneously. Loading time per game is 10 secs. MAX, so about 40 secs in total. It uses QUAD SPI so it reads at top speed from microSD.


OPTION 2
raditional option will cost about $350 and will be as usual holding just one game in the flashes. Loading time per game varies from 20 seconds to maximum 75 seconds.

Having 4 games loaded at once means you can cycle through them (4 favorites?) instantly without waiting for the ROM to load.. I don't get why people don't see this as the most convenient and user friendly way. And if you only want 1 game it will take 10 seconds to load (albeit it is with each power cycle) instead of 20 to 75 seconds. (If you are only interested in 1 game at a time then option 2 is the best for you)

Because it adds alot of extra complexity, possible issues, and maybe needing to further patch games to work.While I have complete faith in Darksoft and whomever he has helping him; There is no way to say that the "virtual 4 slot" isnt going to break something down the line. Whether that be in a software patch for each and every game, or in the handling of the softdips, etc.

You are contradicting yourself by first saying you have complete faith and in the next phrase you are doubting whether or not it will ever work properly. So what if the ROM's need patching? They need to be manipulated anyway in any of the 2 versions.

Having faith in the development team, and defying possibilities are two completely different things.

Because patching the decryption, which has already been done for all encrypted neo games, and adding patches for menu change, etc. are not the same. One disables a function, the other adds functionality.

 

[Coyo5050]

i see positives to both solutions. I am a general believe in keeping it simple to reduce any future issues. All I care about is being able to plug this in to my mvs, have a menu to pick a game and then play. I like how krikzz does his carts for example. If I can load up say my 4 favorites games to save a little time and switch back and forth easily that is fine too.

 

[Greedostick]

I think another question about the patched, decrypted ROMs, are if the universe bios will work. I am kind of a dummy at th

I'm still thinking about the different versions, voted for option 2.

I might change it to 1 but I still fail to see the added benefit of having 4 games loaded at start when it only takes 10 seconds to load up another one.

Huh? You mean 20 to max 75 seconds with the flash version because that's what you will be getting with option 2.

OPTION 1

FPGA option will cost below $400. It will come with already soldered DDR memories. Will not support any battery but instead, it will write 4 small files in the microSD so when you boot up it will load whatever was loaded when you switched off back to the DDR memories. It can hold up to 4 games simultaneously. Loading time per game is 10 secs. MAX, so about 40 secs in total. It uses QUAD SPI so it reads at top speed from microSD.


OPTION 2
raditional option will cost about $350 and will be as usual holding just one game in the flashes. Loading time per game varies from 20 seconds to maximum 75 seconds.

Having 4 games loaded at once means you can cycle through them (4 favorites?) instantly without waiting for the ROM to load.. I don't get why people don't see this as the most convenient and user friendly way. And if you only want 1 game it will take 10 seconds to load (albeit it is with each power cycle) instead of 20 to 75 seconds. (If you are only interested in 1 game at a time then option 2 is the best for you)

Because it adds alot of extra complexity, possible issues, and maybe needing to further patch games to work.While I have complete faith in Darksoft and whomever he has helping him; There is no way to say that the "virtual 4 slot" isnt going to break something down the line. Whether that be in a software patch for each and every game, or in the handling of the softdips, etc.

You are contradicting yourself by first saying you have complete faith and in the next phrase you are doubting whether or not it will ever work properly. So what if the ROM's need patching? They need to be manipulated anyway in any of the 2 versions.

Here's my question. Why patched ROMS?

I understand a lot of games will work out of the box, but coding all the stuff seems like a huge effort. Is it just way too hard or expensive to use ROMS that are not patched? Would it take longer to create a flash cart without the need for patching, than it would to individually patch each game?

I know there are a lot of game that have issues with the 161n 1's, and a lot that have never appeared on a multi cart. Magician Lord and Windjammers + Real Bouts come to mind.

So my final question is, who will be patching all these ROMS, and what is the overall expectation on a scale to 100% to patch every game to work perfect?

OK, I lied, one more. Will the ROMS compatible with these be the same ROMS on the multi carts? Or is there any sort of idea what ROM sets will be used?

 

[l_oliveira]

The ideal would be ROMs patched the minimum needed to bypass copy protection or encryption.

For example Fatal Fury 2 (Garou Densetsu 2) have a copy protection device on it's PRG ROM.

 

[Niko]

Yes, unibios will still work.

There are already decrypted versions ( patched ) of the encrypted roms out there. So unless the FPGA version is chosen, there wont need to be any "patching" done.

The roms that will be compatible with these multis will be any properly dumped & decrypted ( if needed ) neo roms. It will not be the same roms that are on the multis. When the multi's where made, not all the games had been decrypted so unencrypted beta and prototype versions of the roms where used.

 

[waiwainl]

OPTION 1

FPGA option will cost below $400. It will come with already soldered DDR memories. Will not support any battery but instead, it will write 4 small files in the microSD so when you boot up it will load whatever was loaded when you switched off back to the DDR memories. It can hold up to 4 games simultaneously. Loading time per game is 10 secs. MAX, so about 40 secs in total. It uses QUAD SPI so it reads at top speed from microSD.


OPTION 2
raditional option will cost about $350 and will be as usual holding just one game in the flashes. Loading time per game varies from 20 seconds to maximum 75 seconds.

Having 4 games loaded at once means you can cycle through them (4 favorites?) instantly without waiting for the ROM to load.. I don't get why people don't see this as the most convenient and user friendly way. And if you only want 1 game it will take 10 seconds to load (albeit it is with each power cycle) instead of 20 to 75 seconds. (If you are only interested in 1 game at a time then option 2 is the best for you)

Option 2 is instant loading forever, once you flashed your game (20-75 sec).

However, if I look at my current PCB's, most of them have a ROM check, which can take up easily 10 seconds.
Also my cab monitors are not 'on' immediately, they need some time to warm up, while the PCB already has power (perhaps 3-5 second diff).
(Perhaps option 1 is not so bad after all )

Question: Once the game is loaded into memory/flash and it starts executing the code. Will it still do the NeoGeo boot sequence? Where you see the messed up colors etc until the NeoGeo logo appears?

 

[Mitsurugi-w]

Question: Once the game is loaded into memory/flash and it starts executing the code. Will it still do the NeoGeo boot sequence? Where you see the messed up colors etc until the NeoGeo logo appears?

That is a part of the Neo hardware itself posting so that will not go away.

 

[Jae]

You can simply load one game and leave the other 3 slots empty, so next time you boot up, it will take 10 seconds to load the game in slot 1.

The menu will allow both to load and unload games from each slot. This is only for FPGA+RAM version.

Would we be able to load just one game and then use the FPGA multicart in an actual MVS 4-slot board and still be able to use the Game Select button to cycle thru the other slots with original carts? Call me crazy but I love to watch my EL panels light up my mini marquees and auto cycle in attract mode.

As much as I would love a multicart I really want this to feel authentic and want it to work correctly in a multi slot MVS. I want to be able to fire up my cabinet and have the multicart automatically load up a game and go into attract mode and cycle thru games as usual without me having to do a single thing.

 

[allegrosurf]

count me in.. Im vote for FPGA version

 

[Braintrash]

I tried, but I couldn't vote for the version supporting NGev.Team. And also, I wanna play Crouching Pony Hidden Dragon when it is released.