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Rastan pcb conversion to Rastan Saga

Pythagoras said:
I been looking for clues there too. "TAITO_COINAGE_WORLD" and "TAITO_COINAGE_JAPAN_OLD" are different configurations for the dipswitches to control how many credits per coin the coinslots are supposed to give.

So they should not be causing any problem. I have also looking at the coin lockout registers. But so far have I not found anything in the bootlegs that could give a clue. There are no patches in any of the bootlegs roms so it should not be the problem. But they are used as a protection device. In the old romsets they are just for protection, in the newer set they are also used too control the limits so not more than 9 credits can be inserted.

But there must be something lurking around since your bootleg works with the old sets but not the new ones.

I digging around in the code for clues. And hopefully will I find something...
Click to expand...
Thanks for going through the trouble.

I have never seen different dip settings for rev1 vs original Rastan. I have also never moved the dips off 1 coin = 1 credit.

I have a Rastan USA original retail PCB that I converted to Rastan Saga Japan rev1 and the default coinage carried over fine.

I was trying to figure out how to start with 99 credits or something on bootleg. I would lose attract mode but at least it would be playable.
 
You can look at the different coinage configurations here I can make a little test patch that gives 99 credit later. Can be good to see how the other inputs behave on the bootleg hardware. Because both Start and Coin uses the same inputs so there is a risk that they are locked too. You could test if they are locked in the "Service mode". There is a bug so it's not possible to test the coin switches but Start 1 and Start 2 can be tested.
 
Pythagoras said:
You can look at the different coinage configurations here I can make a little test patch that gives 99 credit later. Can be good to see how the other inputs behave on the bootleg hardware. Because both Start and Coin uses the same inputs so there is a risk that they are locked too. You could test if they are locked in the "Service mode". There is a bug so it's not possible to test the coin switches but Start 1 and Start 2 can be tested.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info.

I will burn another set of ROMs for the bootleg using Rastan.zip maincpu files.

I will test using the service menu.

It's been a few years, but I re-read my old post at Aussie arcade and my report was that the controls didn't work (not just coinage). So, perhaps you are correct that no controls will work.

I wish my memory was better and that I took better notes.
 
Good, let me know the result of the tests. That info will help to narrow down what causing the behavior when the roms are changed.
 
Unfortunately, Service Mode (SW1 - DIP3) does not work on my bootleg PCB.

On the retail Rastan PCB, Service Mode works fine. It first shows some color bars and then you can get into testing.

On the bootleg PCB, the image will not sync in Service Mode. It's hard to describe, but there are 3-4 horizontal(ish) lines that are reg, white, green, blue (probably the color bars) and it plays random sound samples.

When not in Service Mode, the game syncs fine. coin does not work but pressing the test (or service, I forget) does return to the title screen. So, at least some input is working.

This testing was done using Rastan Saga (Japan) Rev 1 maincpu ROMs (b04-31.7, b04-32.19, b04-33-1.8, b04-34-1.20, b04-35.9, b04-36.21).

I opted for Japan ROMs because that's what I have in my Retail PCB and wanted to do apples to apples comparison.

I'm going to re-program the original ROMs and try service mode with them, just to see if it works. It doesn't help us with this exercise though.

Thanks again for going through this with me.
 
Strange, just like the interupt vectors are wrong. Could you check the 2 first CPU roms, So they are ok? Maybe one of the eproms did not get burnt correctly or are faulty.
If you don't have any spare roms, you could try to swap the eproms and burn the two first roms on the two last ones and see if something happens when you try to enter service mode again...
 
Pythagoras said:
Strange, just like the interupt vectors are wrong. Could you check the 2 first CPU roms, So they are ok? Maybe one of the eproms did not get burnt correctly or are faulty.
If you don't have any spare roms, you could try to swap the eproms and burn the two first roms on the two last ones and see if something happens when you try to enter service mode again...
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with the ROMs, unfortunately. I verified them all after programming. I verify all my ROMs 15 times to make sure the reads are consistent.

I just went back to rastsagaa (original, no revision) maincpu ROMs and the performance is the same when enabling service menu.

Not sure what configuration you are asking me to try. I have some extra EPROMs but I can also erase them and flash any config you want. That's what I've been doing.

I have a big stack of 512k EPROMs... somewhere. I didn't need to burn any for a while and I misplaced my eraser (had to buy another) and most of my blank EPROMs. I don't have a large house, so idk how that happened. This is what happens when I "clean up".
 
GeorgeSpinner said:
I just went back to rastsagaa (original, no revision) maincpu ROMs and the performance is the same when enabling service menu.
Click to expand...
Do you mean that the service menu still are broken when you use the original roms?

In rare cases an eprom can have problem on the pcb but not in the burner. That's why I wanted you to try to burn the data on some other eproms.
Too bad that Rastan not have any rom test in the service mode. There is just a simple memory test. Not very useful in this case...
 
Pythagoras said:
Do you mean that the service menu still are broken when you use the original roms?

In rare cases an eprom can have problem on the pcb but not in the burner. That's why I wanted you to try to burn the data on some other eproms.
Too bad that Rastan not have any rom test in the service mode. There is just a simple memory test. Not very useful in this case...
Click to expand...
I have reprogrammed the EPROMs 4 times. I'm using a group of 8 EPROMs to write 6 ROMs. I don't pay attention to which EPROMs were used or which ROM I've put on each.

I doubt it's an EPROM issue, since behavior was same on all 4 tries and I'm reasonably sure the EPROMs were shuffled around.

Thanks again.
 
Yes, since you have used different eproms so can we rule out them but is the problem still present with the original roms aswell?
 
BTW: I tried to update the bootleg in Mame. First did I just get a white screen with som graphics flickering. But I did tried again and the 2:nd time did it work and everything was perfect.

The roms I used the following rom sets...
"9" --> b04-32.19 > CRC: 1c91dbb1
"12" --> b04-31.7 > CRC: 4c62e89e
"10" --> b04-34-1.20 > CRC: 8f54dd19
"13" --> b04-33-1.8 > CRC: 810a02a3
"11" --> b04-36.21 > CRC: 32e286c0
"14" --> b04-35.9 > CRC: ee5ec5bc
 
Pythagoras said:
BTW: I tried to update the bootleg in Mame. First did I just get a white screen with som graphics flickering. But I did tried again and the 2:nd time did it work and everything was perfect.

The roms I used the following rom sets...
"9" --> b04-32.19 > CRC: 1c91dbb1
"12" --> b04-31.7 > CRC: 4c62e89e
"10" --> b04-34-1.20 > CRC: 8f54dd19
"13" --> b04-33-1.8 > CRC: 810a02a3
"11" --> b04-36.21 > CRC: 32e286c0
"14" --> b04-35.9 > CRC: ee5ec5bc
Click to expand...
That is the same set I used.

All of the original EPROMs were replaced, on the bootleg, by me. The board had many bad EPROMs when I got it. I decided to just replace them all.

I identified all of the ROMs , manually, using hex comparison tools.

I replaced the ROMs with the same data that was originally there and the service menu still does not work.

I never got a white screen. Screen is always dark with a few colored lines going through it.
 
Ok, it doesn't work with any roms. Sounds like there are a problem with the hardware. Could be an easy fix but I don't know much about hardware troubleshooting. ;(
 
Pythagoras said:
Ok, it doesn't work with any roms. Sounds like there are a problem with the hardware. Could be an easy fix but I don't know much about hardware troubleshooting. ;(
Click to expand...
It's bootleg hardware. Who knows if it ever worked?

But that would not stop us from testing, if I could get a credit in it. That would answer the question if the issue was coinage or all controls.
 
Here is a hack you can try. It will give you 99 credits at start. The zip contains cpu rom 3 & 4 for Rastan Saga Rev 1...
 
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Pythagoras said:
Will be interesting to see how far we can get. The next project will be to add a better rom check.
Click to expand...
It worked perfectly!

I played all the way through the game.

It is curious why coinage is broken on Bootleg w/rev1 but all the other controls work perfectly.

Thank you, very much, for creating the hacked ROM. I really appreciate it; I can't express how much.

My bootleg PCB is worth playing now. I'll gladly trade attract mode for full playability.
 
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Too bad that we not have another bootleg to test. To verify if the behavior is same or if it's just your bootleg that behave strange.
Since the coin inputs work with the earlier revision on the bootleg it should be possible to fix it for this revision but more information is needed to be able do to so.

Another problem is that we can't trust Mame to 100%. The coin inputs does not work in service mode in Mame, but I asked someone to try this on their Rastan Saga and on his PCB did the coin input work. So I suspect something is wrong in Mame. That is very strange. But I have tested som other game and they had the same problems. For example "Armed Police Batrider" and some other Taito games. from the same period as Rastan.
 
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