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Retro Scaler A1

@invzim that sounds pretty accurate to me!

I know @Derick2k was saying he has a few other pieces of hardware in line that solve it with his Vewlixes. But I've just been testing straight out of the A1.
 
invzim said:
@rewrite - added your latest tests to the list. Would be interesting to get to the bottom of what's up with Combatribes. I decided to give up on keeping track of titles with issues on specific vewlix LCD's, but instead put this caveat on top of the list

Caveat for Vewlix owners - the LCD in one or more models of the Vewlix, particularly the Diamond variety, may not process the scaled output of the A1 properly or at all for some of the titles below. The majority of titles work without issues.

Do you (and other vewlix owners, @Derick2k) feel this is correct and fair?
Click to expand...
Yes it is, but it is still one of the better solutions.
 
invzim said:
@rewrite - added your latest tests to the list. Would be interesting to get to the bottom of what's up with Combatribes. I decided to give up on keeping track of titles with issues on specific vewlix LCD's, but instead put this caveat on top of the list

Caveat for Vewlix owners - the LCD in one or more models of the Vewlix, particularly the Diamond variety, may not process the scaled output of the A1 properly or at all for some of the titles below. The majority of titles work without issues.

Do you (and other vewlix owners, @Derick2k) feel this is correct and fair?
Click to expand...
I feel this is accurate, and it’s a good alternative to the Taito kit.
 
Hey Invzim. There’s a lot of chatter recently about using this device with the X68000 computer that is typically 31khz but switches to 15khz for some games

A user on twitter actually owns your A1 device and an X68000 and got around to testing it today, by feeding it the RGBHV output that comes from X68K.

He ran into a bunch of issues and I figured this would be a good op for you guys to connect and see if this is something that can be solved with firmware update as I can see this being a very popular device with X68000 users.

Not sure the best way to link you outside the twitter post he replied to me with that shows the issues:

https://twitter.com/atetheprincess/status/1269093203128414210?s=21
 
I saw some activity on twitter, but couldn't find it later. ANYHO, wold love for the 68000 stuff to work, and as always with Irken stuff - you will receive the best support if you drop me an email :)

@sammargh also has a x68k I believe.

I don't have a a 68k myself, but believe the use case would be:
Pass-thru 31k, scale 15k.

@rewrite the 68k boots in 31k? I've seen some pass-thru oddities, but never really got to the bottom of it.
The issue I've been seeing, but not consistently and not very often, is along the lines of:
1- boot A1 with 31k source connected OR boot scaler and 31k system at the same time, not entirely sure
2 - no pass-thru, sync is processed correctly but no picture on my CRT
3 - disconnect/reconnect source system cable
4 - RGB pass-thru works

Is this consistent with what you're experiencing with the 68k?
 
So been plugging, replugging, repowering a few hundred times with different boards and have a working reproduction, somehow, I think.

It has to do with the automatic hardwired C/H-V sync input stage. It's not all scalers that are affected, some variance in chips I think.

The way I can trigger the bypass problem is:
1 - power up A1 with no source connected
2 - manually connect a running 31K H/V sync source

I had to go through a few of the boards in stock, as this does not happen with my test/dev units, but found one that is pretty consistent.

If I leave the A1 powered, unplug & replug - things work like they should. So seems like if the A1 has been started up for a few seconds with no source, then a constant 31k source will trigger the error. For e.g. naomi it's not an issue as the sync is on/off a few times before anything is actually displayed and this seems to reset the IC into a proper working state.

@rewrite - can you try rebooting/restarting the x68k while leaving the A1 powered to check if you can get the boot stuff to display properly?
 
Throughout the testing I had done previous I ran into that issue myself as I was swapping powered on components through a vga switch to make things quicker. I figured the A1 missed the sync from intermittent signal ??? while being plugged in. From what I remember the MSX2 was the worst offender when scaling but it was found to have extremely weak sync that needs fixed.

As noted in that twitter exchange I have an x68k myself and I neglected to mention in the thread but I also have a datapath capture card so I can test the x68k through that as well once I find motivation to get out of bed.

I assume I should have it configured to scale 15khz for testing?
 
Did some quick testing and some various scenarios:

Boot x68000 and play game (31khz):
Works fine, pass-through is used properly LED is red as expected

Here's where things start to depart:

Boot x68000 and navigate to Afterburner 2 which is a 15khz game and set bypass to enable:
Works fine, pass-through is used by 31khz and when the 15khz signal is detected and monitor switches appropriately

Boot x68000 and navigate to Afterburner 2 which is a 15khz game and set bypass to disable:
Works fine, pass-through is used by 31khz and when the 15khz signal is detected switches over for a second but re-syncs to 31khz

From either state I then press reset:
bypass to enable reset works and switches properly back to 31khz
bypass to disable the change in clock is not seen and the scaler starts sending crazy data and I need to power cycle it. All 3 LEDs are lit in this scenario and I'm not to keen on trying again because my monitor made a pretty scary noise in the process. You can likely recreate this scenario with your Naomi by leaving the scaler powered and flipping the switch for 15khz.
 
sammargh said:
You can likely recreate this scenario with your Naomi by leaving the scaler powered and flipping the switch for 15khz.
Click to expand...
I've always been under the impression you should NOT flip dips while boards are powered. Is this an actual exception to the rule?
 
rewrite said:
sammargh said:
You can likely recreate this scenario with your Naomi by leaving the scaler powered and flipping the switch for 15khz.
Click to expand...
I've always been under the impression you should NOT flip dips while boards are powered. Is this an actual exception to the rule?
Click to expand...
Oh no my apologies - leaving the Retro Scaler A1 powered ha!

I.e power external and turn the naomi on in 31khz then 15khz and then 31khz again
 
For all cases, bypass should be set to auto which is default. @sammargh 's use of the A1 as a sync-fixer is beyond corner-case :)

I think I've narrowed it down to H/V sync in general, which should only happen once after power-up of the A1, replugging connector should take care of it as long as the A1 is kept powered.

I've filed a ticket to the offending chips manufacturer to see if they have some insight.

This behavior is only observed on some A1's, and only for H/V sync sources - i.e. not consoles or arcade games. I'll do some more digging and see if I can come up with a work-around.

The X68k boots in 31k?
 
invzim said:
The X68k boots in 31k?
Click to expand...
I'm not 100% sure myself. And can't check until my girlfriend is done work for the day (I've been stealing her laptop charger for my Compact, ha).
 
Let me know if you end up needing some readings done since I seem to have all the offending hardware and scopes :D

At least to cover the option with it set to auto the behavior is the same as "on"

And yes the x68000 boots in 31khz. There is a list of various games with resolutions on https://vintagecpu.wordpress.com/2010/12/31/switching-resolution-for-x68000-vga/


I'm not sure how much you want to support these Japanese pcs @invzim but I have a x68000, FM-Towns and two PC-9821s that I can do further testing on if you wish.
 
It would be nice to confirm my bench-findings, i.e. that once the A1 is powered and working with h/v input, it should stay working for as long as it's powered. If it doesn't work with H/V input to begin with, a quick replug of source should take care of it.
 
I found that along all my 15khz sources, the only issue I have run into is having to power cycle for the CPS3. Otherwise, it just flashes in and out.
 
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