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Reverse engineering 161 in 1 cartridge to change Rom games

Would this fix be doable on a 161-in-1 Vortex modified V2 cart? If so that's preferable than swapping out the CPU
 
Here's how I modified a Vortex MVS cart for testing. I verified that this has no ill effect on running it on a real MVS board. I also verified that it works fine on AES using a Furrtek adapter.

If you're modifying an AES cart, the modifications would look different. For AES cart, the correct fix is:

B28 -> 220ohm -> 5V (B25/B26/B27)
B29 -> 220ohm -> 5V
B30 -> B31 -> 220ohm -> 5V

I want to stress that this fix is really needed only for AES with Hitachi CPU based on my experience. Toshiba and real Motorola CPUs are more forgiving with timing not set correctly. This "should" fix issues where ALL games have bad graphical issues (text is not readable) little line glitches here and there will not be fixed by this. Those are issues due to the way AES multiplexes graphics.
 

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SparkTR said:
Sounds easy enough. I'll do the mod and report back.
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In case it wasn't clear, all this work is done on the back of the PROG PCB. If there's no marking, you start counting from the left side going towards the right. On most carts, pins 30 and 31 should already be connected to one another but nothing else.
 
leonk said:
In case it wasn't clear, all this work is done on the back of the PROG PCB. If there's no marking, you start counting from the left side going towards the right. On most carts, pins 30 and 31 should already be connected to one another but nothing else.
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Thanks for the clarification. The revision I have can be seen in the attached images, doesn't look like pin 30 and 31 are connected, I guess I'll bridge them?
 

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Here is the fix I want you to try on that AES cart. Let me know if this fixes the corrupt graphics for all the games. You'll need to scrape the solder mask to connect the wires or resistors to it. 220ohm is what real Neo Geo carts use.
AES fix.png
 
Thanks @leonk, I also have an AES 3-5 with the Hitachi CPU that has graphics glitches on all games on the Vortex cart.

@AlxUnderBase is kindly going to help me by socketing the CPU and then I will try switching to the Toshiba CPU as suggested.
 
jj1929 said:
@AlxUnderBase is kindly going to help me by socketing the CPU and then I will try switching to the Toshiba CPU as suggested.
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I prefer to fix the new thing than fix the old thing mentality. For example, not a fan of modifying SNES with dejitter fix for OSSC or RGB bypass for better RetroTink5X compatibility. And in this case, let's try and make the Vortex cart more "standards" compliant before doing surgery on the AES.
 
leonk said:
Here is the fix I want you to try on that AES cart. Let me know if this fixes the corrupt graphics for all the games. You'll need to scrape the solder mask to connect the wires or resistors to it. 220ohm is what real Neo Geo carts use.
AES fix.png
Click to expand...
I installed the mod and the picture is cleared up a bit, but the issues still remain unfortunately. I'll give the CPU swap a try before calling it a day.
 
SparkTR said:
I installed the mod and the picture is cleared up a bit, but the issues still remain unfortunately. I'll give the CPU swap a try before calling it a day.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I have a few early AES games here (original, in the box with manuals) and they all have graphical glitches - yes - real AES carts.

Upon closer inspection, I see that even SNK got wait cycles wrong. ROMWAIT, PWAIT0, PWAIT1 and PDTACK are all floating on the AES version of SENGOKU but are all connected to 5VDC on the MVS version. Newer AES PCBs fixed this. I'm guessing the original designers of the 161-in-1 years ago replicated what these early carts were doing (which was incorrect)

I'm guessing this worked with the older AES chipset. The NEO-C1 came out with AES 3-3 (I think the older one was called PRO-C0) and it probably acted a bit differently causing some glitches.
 
I thought the goal was to add a wait cycle? but all of them are wired to 5V, which would be full speed.
 
ack said:
I thought the goal was to add a wait cycle? but all of them are wired to 5V, which would be full speed.
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The goal was to find out why 161-in-1 carts and some of the early AES carts have the wait cycle settings undefined and what the impact is of having them undefined.
 
Just curious. With my vortex 161-in-1 cart, the first 78 games has that graphical glitches. It's basically unplayable. Is this similar to what you guys are seeing ? Or could it be an issue with my specific cart ? I do have a 3-5 aes console.
tempImageQv0rWh.jpg
 
kiun said:
Just curious. With my vortex 161-in-1 cart, the first 78 games has that graphical glitches. It's basically unplayable. Is this similar to what you guys are seeing ? Or could it be an issue with my specific cart ? I do have a 3-5 aes console.
Click to expand...
I sent you a message.
 
For me it's mostly the latter half of games, but the glitches are just messed up text and vertical lines in the sprites. Roughly 40% of games are affected.
 
kiun said:
Just curious. With my vortex 161-in-1 cart, the first 78 games has that graphical glitches. It's basically unplayable. Is this similar to what you guys are seeing ? Or could it be an issue with my specific cart ? I do have a 3-5 aes console.
tempImageQv0rWh.jpg
Click to expand...
The pin A2 of your C1 rom is causing issue. Check continuity/isolation of it.
(edit: A2 is naming convention for MVS C ROM Address lines, not the pinout of the flash)
 
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littlecharlie said:
The graphics of the games are divided in the 3 Croms. The first games are stored in C1, the following ones in C2 and the last ones in C3. You may have a problematic Crom that will affect only the games stored in that rom
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This makes sense. The first 77 games work without issue, but the remaining 87 after than seem to have issues.
 
Apologies if this is inappropriate, but thought I would mention it since a few people were talking about CPU swaps...


I was going through a bunch of my spares and random junk, and I have two Toshiba CPUs and sockets laying around if anyone wants to buy one. Not looking to get a bunch of money, just want back what I have into them. I originally bought them as spares for a pair of AES consoles I was trying to fix, but I ended up giving up on the projects and forgot I had the CPUs laying around.

I also have Sony VRAM & Work RAM chips, as well as transistors + diodes for the consoles with the 5V-only rail.

Shoot me a PM if you have any interest.
 
Has anyone run a Vortex cart on an MV-1? Or maybe rather, are there any known boards with compatibility issues and a Vortex cart?

Seems to work fine on my MV-1A and MV-4 boards.
 
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