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Dreamstate

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Yum! I have been eating up this discussion since I have an almost complete N64 collection. I want to be on any list if possible. You guys are way over my head, but I really enjoy reading the thought process that you are going through. Being in IT all my life, it feels very similar.
 
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Fluffy

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Well here it is . You just plug in the new aleck64 card and on the back you slide any of your n64 cards you have ntsc-j or ntsc USA
Interesting... so which CIC is now actually used, the one from the original card or from the n64 card?
 

AMS

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@Fluffy the one in the n64 card. The connector is wired to the aleck64-160 pin connector . So it’s like a big adapter :) . This way you are keeping everything original . So just put in your original aleck cards or just swap it with my version and push in your favo n64 card you have laying around
 

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If there is a way we can make a multi n64 card that can do comms with the aleck we are on the finish line :)
 

twistedsymphony

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so which CIC is now actually used, the one from the original card or from the n64 card?
AMS or Brizzo please correct me if I'm wrong but the CIC is game specific. The reason N64 games work is because they can just use the CIC they already have, but a challenge in building a multi or making repo Alekc64 carts is that the CIC used by all of the Aleck64 games is not shared with any N64 games and is also not emulated on any of the everdrives or other similar devices.

If there is a way we can make a multi n64 card that can do comms with the aleck we are on the finish line
First thing is that I would suspect that is built into the game code, there may not be any hardware solution that you could put in a cart to give JAMMA edge controls.

I don't know that it's even worth doing though. 95% of the N64 library can't be played without an analog stick: http://www.paulscode.com/forum/index.php?topic=1329.0
 

AMS

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@twistedsymphony

Hmm the multi can be a issue yeah. I’ve not dig deep enough into the architecture as my knowledge does not go that far. I think @brizzo can do that much better..

about the other thing you are corect that’s why I think or use the original aleck 64 arcade panel that does analog and digital inputs or just use a pad hack to skip all that work :) easy enough. For me it was to just play all n64 games on my arcade cabinet in good resolution and also now to play star soldier with arcade controlls on real hardware without spending 1000 euro on that card. It’s a bonus I now am able to play 95% of all n64 games
 
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Fluffy

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AMS or Brizzo please correct me if I'm wrong but the CIC is game specific. The reason N64 games work is because they can just use the CIC they already have, but a challenge in building a multi or making repo Alekc64 carts is that the CIC used by all of the Aleck64 games is not shared with any N64 games and is also not emulated on any of the everdrives or other similar devices.
That's why I was asking...
If I understand the CIC system correctly there are two (three) security methods:
- a NES/SNES style cipher stream, without which the console locks up
- a header checksum which is game specific
- some additional challenge system used by later games

At the moment:
- the cipher stream can be reproduced, thanks to the work in the link Brizzo mentioned. AFAIK this is not game specific.
- the header checksum is actually checked by the boot code on the cartridge, so could be patched out. I think people used a "boot emulator", that boots a game with a known header/CIC combination, then loads another game from that.
- the additional challenge was reverse engineered as well, though I have no idea if this applies to the Aleck64 boards

Edit: I did research some of this in the past, but a lot of the info from the early days seems to have fallen off the internet, or is spread over lots of separate FAQs or scraped websites.
 
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brizzo

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If there is a way we can make a multi n64 card that can do comms with the aleck we are on the finish line :)
That is what I have been working on, a flash cartridge that will support all Aleck64 games (and n64 games if you chose to flash them). I made a cartridge adapter just like you're wanting to do 4-5 years ago now but figured nobody would be interested in that.
AMS or Brizzo please correct me if I'm wrong but the CIC is game specific. The reason N64 games work is because they can just use the CIC they already have, but a challenge in building a multi or making repo Alekc64 carts is that the CIC used by all of the Aleck64 games is not shared with any N64 games and is also not emulated on any of the everdrives or other similar devices.
You are correct that each game has to be using the respective CIC it needs.
I don't know that it's even worth doing though. 95% of the N64 library can't be played without an analog stick:
Yes this is a problem. Even using the Aleck64 joysticks, it is still a problem as you only have 6 buttons but there are 13 buttons on a N64 controller.

At the moment:
- the cipher stream can be reproduced, thanks to the work in the link Brizzo mentioned. AFAIK this is not game specific.
- the header checksum is actually checked by the boot code on the cartridge, so could be patched out. I think people used a "boot emulator", that boots a game with a known header/CIC combination, then loads another game from that.
- the additional challenge was reverse engineered as well, though I have no idea if this applies to the Aleck64 boards
You'll find that I was also credited in the presentation at CCC for the cic reverse engineering and there are slides showing Aleck64. Like I said before the CIC-5101 is not the same as the others but I was able to solve the differences. The bootloader checksum code is part of the bootloader itself contained in the first 0x1000 bytes of the roms, reverse engineered that and re-wrote it in C (this is used to patch games, or create new homebrew/games).
 

AMS

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Yes I have about 3 of those panels . They have the most amazing lock system to switch between digital and analog controlls . A whole assy slides aside to make way for the pots
 

djsheep

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Tops in Japan gets the control panel in for not too much money too.
 
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