Kujako
Champion
From what I've seen these are not AES sized, just shaped. I'm not aware of any after market AES replacement shells.
Would you love assemble your new NeoGeo AES motherboard ?
- Thread starter pierpa86
- Start date
From what I've seen these are not AES sized, just shaped. I'm not aware of any after market AES replacement shells.
hatmoose
Enlightened
Can confirm, after many searches, if there is an AES reproduction shell out there no-one is selling it
Koston
Student
LCSC is cheaper than Mouser, at least.
hatmoose
Enlightened
To keep costs down I've spent several days harvesting parts from this motley collection of parts boards. This was quite time consuming.
For the through-hole components I’ve been using a Hakko 2024
For SMD I’ve been using an Atten 862 with various adapters - these make removing large SMD devices much easier. Big difference between Hakko(left) and Aliexpress(right) quality, but also a big difference in price
I had never used these before, but the method that worked best for me is to basically sit the nozzle ON the chip so the hot air is blowing directly on the legs, low-ish temp (260c) high-ish airflow (90%) leave it in place for 20-30 seconds, then slide the whole chip off.
There is one custom not readily available from parts boards. NEO-G0 was only used on AES and MV2-B. https://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?title=NEO-G0
Luckily the awesome Furrtek has designed a replacement using standard parts here https://github.com/neogeodev/NeoChips/tree/master/NEO-G0
But its hard to get tiny PCB's made with the tiny castelated edges at an acceptable level of quality for a reasonable price.
However, JLCPCB have an insanely cheap promo for PCBflex at the moment (5 units only) so I'll give that a go.
For the through-hole components I’ve been using a Hakko 2024
For SMD I’ve been using an Atten 862 with various adapters - these make removing large SMD devices much easier. Big difference between Hakko(left) and Aliexpress(right) quality, but also a big difference in price
I had never used these before, but the method that worked best for me is to basically sit the nozzle ON the chip so the hot air is blowing directly on the legs, low-ish temp (260c) high-ish airflow (90%) leave it in place for 20-30 seconds, then slide the whole chip off.
There is one custom not readily available from parts boards. NEO-G0 was only used on AES and MV2-B. https://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?title=NEO-G0
Luckily the awesome Furrtek has designed a replacement using standard parts here https://github.com/neogeodev/NeoChips/tree/master/NEO-G0
But its hard to get tiny PCB's made with the tiny castelated edges at an acceptable level of quality for a reasonable price.
However, JLCPCB have an insanely cheap promo for PCBflex at the moment (5 units only) so I'll give that a go.
hatmoose
Enlightened
Slow progress. Will be socketing this one as much as possible to help with the inevitable “untrusted parts in an untested system” problems.
As you can see I have not-very sensibly ignored Acks advice and left the power section until last.
U32 (CXA1645A) was giving me some trouble being that it was only used on the AES and there is no suitable donor. These seem cheap and plentiful on Aliexpress, and there are good options for adapting a newer chip like the 2075, so hopefully not too many problems there
https://www.retrosix.wiki/cxa2075-upgrade-cxa1145
U39 (CX23065A) is the tricky one, only used in the AES, no suitable donor from MVS, hard to buy
https://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?title=CX23065
If anyone has a good source for CX23065A that might ship to NZ do please let me know.
There are some clues in the interactive BOM about removing U39 altogether, and replacing X1 with 24Mhz
U39 Notes = "Use Original or could be removed along with associated resistors and caps, D3 D4 removed and bridged and 24Mhz used"
X1 notes "Use Original or 24 Mhz and CX23065A removed"
So might need to investigate that in no alternative can be found
As you can see I have not-very sensibly ignored Acks advice and left the power section until last.
U32 (CXA1645A) was giving me some trouble being that it was only used on the AES and there is no suitable donor. These seem cheap and plentiful on Aliexpress, and there are good options for adapting a newer chip like the 2075, so hopefully not too many problems there
https://www.retrosix.wiki/cxa2075-upgrade-cxa1145
U39 (CX23065A) is the tricky one, only used in the AES, no suitable donor from MVS, hard to buy
https://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?title=CX23065
If anyone has a good source for CX23065A that might ship to NZ do please let me know.
There are some clues in the interactive BOM about removing U39 altogether, and replacing X1 with 24Mhz
U39 Notes = "Use Original or could be removed along with associated resistors and caps, D3 D4 removed and bridged and 24Mhz used"
X1 notes "Use Original or 24 Mhz and CX23065A removed"
So might need to investigate that in no alternative can be found
maki
Student
Mega Drive/Genesis first model are donors as well IIRC
Its the RGB amp, possible to replace with a THS7473 and similar if you don't care about composite/RF.
I got them from buyee.jp, they've send them all the way to europe here.. not cheap, not worth it IMO
IIRC the PLL is optional: https://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?title=Video_PLL
It should be possible to replace that with a DFO.
The PLL is basically slowing down the main clock dynamically so it fits better into the NTSC/PAL subcarrier frequencies.
Thats what the note in the BOM is about IMO.
hatmoose
Enlightened
Making replacement NEO-G0 chips
These are required for the AES and the only viable donors are another AES or an MVS 2-slot.
Being the absolute legend Furrtek has released the design files here
https://github.com/neogeodev/NeoChips
Furrtek sells a vastly superior version to the one I've made for only eight dollars. Like most things Furrtek makes I cant figure out how they can possibly be this cheap.
https://www.tindie.com/products/furrtek/neo-g0-replacement/
Have been wanting to mess around with flex PCB's for a while now, so I ordered some for the NEO-G0 replacement chips - they arrived today.
This was mainly for fun and experiments - Simple Flex PCB's have the advantage of being nearly free from JLCPCB at the moment, and the edges which are extremely expensive castellations on FR4 are free on Flex.
Substrate is polyamide (mine was .1mm). Copper layer is as expected but thinner. Solder mask layer is some kind of kind of tough coating, I dont think its polyamide because its clear, and not as heat resistant. The silkscreen on Flex looks noticeably worse than the silkscreen on FR4 - im guessing ink doesn't adhere well to whatever the mask layer is made of
JLCPCB will also allow you to add a "stiffener" layer which I think goes between the copper layer and the mask layer. Unfortunately the Gerber spec doesn't have a stiffener layer built in. So for now you can draw it in one of the unused layers make a note in your order. I didn't do that but I'll give it a go next time.
The boards have clearly been designed for reflow rather than hand soldering (there is absolutely no overlap on the pads). But with a proper micro iron (mine is a Hakko 2032) they were OK to work with. Apparently it is possible to put Flex PCB's through a reflow oven, so hot air rework must also be possible.
What worked for me was adding flux, carefully tinning the pads, adding more flux, placing the part, tinning the tip of the iron then touching each pin very briefly.
Actually soldering this "chip" to the board will be terribly difficult - there is a massive thermal differential between the (tiny) flex board edge castellations, and the ginormous motherboard pads. Hold my beer
These are required for the AES and the only viable donors are another AES or an MVS 2-slot.
Being the absolute legend Furrtek has released the design files here
https://github.com/neogeodev/NeoChips
Furrtek sells a vastly superior version to the one I've made for only eight dollars. Like most things Furrtek makes I cant figure out how they can possibly be this cheap.
https://www.tindie.com/products/furrtek/neo-g0-replacement/
Have been wanting to mess around with flex PCB's for a while now, so I ordered some for the NEO-G0 replacement chips - they arrived today.
This was mainly for fun and experiments - Simple Flex PCB's have the advantage of being nearly free from JLCPCB at the moment, and the edges which are extremely expensive castellations on FR4 are free on Flex.
Substrate is polyamide (mine was .1mm). Copper layer is as expected but thinner. Solder mask layer is some kind of kind of tough coating, I dont think its polyamide because its clear, and not as heat resistant. The silkscreen on Flex looks noticeably worse than the silkscreen on FR4 - im guessing ink doesn't adhere well to whatever the mask layer is made of
JLCPCB will also allow you to add a "stiffener" layer which I think goes between the copper layer and the mask layer. Unfortunately the Gerber spec doesn't have a stiffener layer built in. So for now you can draw it in one of the unused layers make a note in your order. I didn't do that but I'll give it a go next time.
The boards have clearly been designed for reflow rather than hand soldering (there is absolutely no overlap on the pads). But with a proper micro iron (mine is a Hakko 2032) they were OK to work with. Apparently it is possible to put Flex PCB's through a reflow oven, so hot air rework must also be possible.
What worked for me was adding flux, carefully tinning the pads, adding more flux, placing the part, tinning the tip of the iron then touching each pin very briefly.
Actually soldering this "chip" to the board will be terribly difficult - there is a massive thermal differential between the (tiny) flex board edge castellations, and the ginormous motherboard pads. Hold my beer
hatmoose
Enlightened
Ordered all the through hole parts from Mouser and Digikey this evening, inching closer.
I'm having trouble with these parts if anyone has suggestions/suppliers/suitable donors do please share!
L1 and L2 (47uH inductor) - this is not optional, and I dont even know where to start with these...
L3 (180uH inductor) - this is optional for the 5v board, but I would much rather make a 9v console to match my NeoGeo 9v power supply.
X1 (24.167829MHz crystal) - this is sorta-kinda with the omission of CX23065A, but that weird clock frequency is part of what makes an AES an AES
D3 and D4 (LV2209 variable capacitance diode) - these are available as a marketplace product from Digikey but the marketplace shipping fee is outrageous. This is sorta-kinda optional with the omission of CX23065A, but that weird clock frequency is part of what makes an AES an AES
SW2 (power switch) - anyone found a perfect footprint match yet?
I'm having trouble with these parts if anyone has suggestions/suppliers/suitable donors do please share!
L1 and L2 (47uH inductor) - this is not optional, and I dont even know where to start with these...
L3 (180uH inductor) - this is optional for the 5v board, but I would much rather make a 9v console to match my NeoGeo 9v power supply.
X1 (24.167829MHz crystal) - this is sorta-kinda with the omission of CX23065A, but that weird clock frequency is part of what makes an AES an AES
D3 and D4 (LV2209 variable capacitance diode) - these are available as a marketplace product from Digikey but the marketplace shipping fee is outrageous. This is sorta-kinda optional with the omission of CX23065A, but that weird clock frequency is part of what makes an AES an AES
SW2 (power switch) - anyone found a perfect footprint match yet?
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hatmoose
Enlightened
Inching closer. Next time I make one (which will be never) I would use the cart as a jig to align the cart slots before soldering - as it is it does fit, but ever so slightly tighter than my real AES.
Now pretty much complete except the power section - will be 5v for this version.
For L1 and L2 I used these footprint is a good match for the board
https://nz.mouser.com/ProductDetail/871-B78108S1473J
For L3 I'll be using 5v power for now so not required
For CX23065A I managed to acquire some NOS while in Japan
For X1 I gave up - 24hz ought to be enough for anyone which is a shame because it means I cant use the CX23065A yet instead will leave off and remove/bridge D1+ D2
For D3 and D4 (LV2209) the MV2109 looks like a suitable match
https://rocelec.widen.net/view/pdf/fgbwqcwbs8/ONSMS10386-1.pdf?t.download=true&u=5oefqw
MV2109 on aliexpress here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007866667182.html but without that crystal they aren't much use
SW2 I haven't looked into yet.
Getting close...
Now pretty much complete except the power section - will be 5v for this version.
For L1 and L2 I used these footprint is a good match for the board
https://nz.mouser.com/ProductDetail/871-B78108S1473J
For L3 I'll be using 5v power for now so not required
For CX23065A I managed to acquire some NOS while in Japan
For X1 I gave up - 24hz ought to be enough for anyone which is a shame because it means I cant use the CX23065A yet instead will leave off and remove/bridge D1+ D2
For D3 and D4 (LV2209) the MV2109 looks like a suitable match
https://rocelec.widen.net/view/pdf/fgbwqcwbs8/ONSMS10386-1.pdf?t.download=true&u=5oefqw
MV2109 on aliexpress here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007866667182.html but without that crystal they aren't much use
SW2 I haven't looked into yet.
Getting close...
Attachments
Lovely, great work @hatmoose !Inching closer. Next time I make one (which will be never) I would use the cart as a jig to align the cart slots before soldering - as it is it does fit, but ever so slightly tighter than my real AES.
Now pretty much complete except the power section - will be 5v for this version.
For L1 and L2 I used these footprint is a good match for the board
https://nz.mouser.com/ProductDetail/871-B78108S1473J
For L3 I'll be using 5v power for now so not required
For CX23065A I managed to acquire some NOS while in Japan
For X1 I gave up - 24hz ought to be enough for anyone which is a shame because it means I cant use the CX23065A yet instead will leave off and remove/bridge D1+ D2
For D3 and D4 (LV2209) the MV2109 looks like a suitable match
https://rocelec.widen.net/view/pdf/fgbwqcwbs8/ONSMS10386-1.pdf?t.download=true&u=5oefqw
MV2109 on aliexpress here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007866667182.html but without that crystal they aren't much use
SW2 I haven't looked into yet.
Getting close...
If there was a case available to 3D print or buy I would like to make one too.
XtraSmiley
Legendary
That's awesome man! I haven't followed this project closely, but I have a few MVS mobos with battery acid damage in the corner but fine otherwise, would their parts be useful for this project? I remember there were some chips that are not reproduced anywhere yet.
hatmoose
Enlightened
There are a few chips that are worth keeping an eye out for suitable donors
NEO-B1 is the big QFP custom - no viable alternative
LSPC2 is the other big custom - no viable alternative for this one either
U19 and U20 (video ram) is very hard to get - can sometimes find on old PC mobos
68k and z80 used to be cheap and plentiful, becoming less so
Ferrite beads are still available, but THT form factor is really really expensive worth the trouble to harvest/recycle
NEO-D0 is only available on AES or MVS-2, I used the furtek reproduction
NEO-B1 is the big QFP custom - no viable alternative
LSPC2 is the other big custom - no viable alternative for this one either
U19 and U20 (video ram) is very hard to get - can sometimes find on old PC mobos
68k and z80 used to be cheap and plentiful, becoming less so
Ferrite beads are still available, but THT form factor is really really expensive worth the trouble to harvest/recycle
NEO-D0 is only available on AES or MVS-2, I used the furtek reproduction
maki
Student
Hi
I'm in Europe/Germany and looking for a PCB, willsconsolemodifications has it but in Red and HASL only.
Tried to order with the link to PCBWay, 5 pieces, ca. USD 125,- with HASL, USD 158,- with ENIG, then the order didn't pass the check, support "fixed it" and now they want USD 213,-, all that without taxes/tariffs and postage, seems excessive tbh.
If anyone has one to sell please let me know, preferable in the EU
(Otherwise I will have to get the red PCB with HASL)
I'm in Europe/Germany and looking for a PCB, willsconsolemodifications has it but in Red and HASL only.
Tried to order with the link to PCBWay, 5 pieces, ca. USD 125,- with HASL, USD 158,- with ENIG, then the order didn't pass the check, support "fixed it" and now they want USD 213,-, all that without taxes/tariffs and postage, seems excessive tbh.
If anyone has one to sell please let me know, preferable in the EU
(Otherwise I will have to get the red PCB with HASL)
hatmoose
Enlightened
I think I've still got some from JLCPCB - will check and confirm, one moment please