DARKSOFT CPS III Bios and CD Releases

[MetalliC]

I've poked this game here and where trying to make it run in MAME as "ASIA NOCD", but it won't boot with no CD inserted with dumped BIOS we have.
so, it is either of Red Earth NOCD uses some special BIOS ver, or require some special flag somewhere, or there is some flaws in current MAME (SCSI?) emulation.

it looks like we really need this thing dumped to resolve this case.

 

[jassin000]

@GoldenGlover I could help make this dump happen if you would be willing to visit our friend Bill in Somerville.
I can set up a date/time with him that also works for you, drive to Boston and pick you+the cart up.
You should be aware (mentioned by @Mitsurugi-w ) I believe this process will more or less destroy the cart (by way of desoldering)...
I would be willing to offer you my SuperBIOS cart as a replacement (provided @Darksoft will hook me up with a reproduction version suitable for the upcoming 8x SIMM multi-kit version).

How's everyone involved feel about this?

 

[Darksoft]

I offered a repro cart already. If someone wants to trade his still battery powered cart and @GoldenGlover agrees on the exchange, I'll send that person a repro cart.

We can add some simms to make @GoldenGlover happier.

 

[KaPH33n]

I don't know how rare these are, probably relatively rare since this is the first time we've had one up front in the community to witness/dump. However, I hate the idea of killing a living game, especially after it had just gotten its battery changed successfully. Certainly we must be able to find someone with a dead cart that is willing to trade it out for such awesome prizes.

I know @GoldenGlover already has a Darksoft cart. However, he is an originals collector. The new simms would be enticing, since they are going to be pricey. However, I don't think he will take the trade... don't want to speak for someone else but that's how I see it. He already has a Darksoft CPS3 option, seems he likes collecting and keeping alive the other carts anyways.

edit: didn't @Frikade just mention that he also has a Red Earth NoCD cart? Maybe he would be willing to trade for a repro DS cart or some of the new simms? I wonder what the state of his battery is... if it's still running on the original then it's a better candidate imo.

 

[jassin000]

seems he likes collecting and keeping alive the other carts anyways

Yea I didn't see him taking the offer myself, but I still wanted to make it just incase.

 

[GoldenGlover]

Hi guys, as I said before I’d really like to keep this cart unsacrificed & battery powered. *If* by crap luck it ever dies on me if I look at it the wrong way (& if no one else has donated an Asia cart), I’d be willing to consider donating to the cause. But as long as this stays battery powered I will keep it as such.

Coincidentally, as I’ve been playing through this, I noticed something unusual with Blade’s cutscenes/battles. It looks like this version actually uses the original name of “Jihad” as Blade’s character name. I took some pics below...I forget if the SuperBIOS makes his name appear as such but it looks like Capcom for the Asia version of Red Earth did things their own way...

 

[nem]

Thing is though, any number of things can happen to that cart (or if I'm really grim, you) and then it's possibly lost forever.

Personally, I'm hardly going to lose sleep over it if it never makes it in to Mame, but I just find the collector mentality weird. If you're at all like others here, Mame gives so much to this hobby. I think it's awesome if I can ever give something back.

 

[xodaraP]

.

 

[twistedsymphony]

Personally, I'm hardly going to lose sleep over it if it never makes it in to Mame

Well, with this cart, it's not just MAME, if we want the new CPS3 Multi setup to work completely with NO CD drive (or no SCSI emulator) then we'll need this No-CD version to complete the set...

 

[jassin000]

Look I'll just say it... I think its greedy/selfish to keep something locked away for yourself.
I'm not only talking about in this situation, the entire collector mentally isn't one of enjoyment to me.
I don't like it, but I also don't have too!

Collectors are buying and getting joy, this is how they enjoy the hobby, who am I to say they aren't allowed to do so because I don't agree?

Anyway I'll say a little prayer to the dark lord of destruction that battery dies and the cart becomes worthless (from a collector/functionality standpoint) overnight.

 

[twistedsymphony]

There's gotta be 1000s of those things we don't need to shame someone into suiciding their cart.

@sheep_nova you ever run into one of these CPS3 Red Earth/Warzaid carts?

 

[kuze]

How would dumping the BIOS kill the cart?

If done carefully I would think you could remove the chip with hot air, read it on a programmer, then solder it back without touching the battery or destroying anything?

I understand of course shit happens and no promises could be made, just genuinely curious.

 

[jassin000]

How would dumping the BIOS kill the cart?

It would kill the key (remember its still on battery) and we can't restore keys on CPS3 carts (yet).

 

[kuze]

How would dumping the BIOS kill the cart?

It would kill the key (remember its still on battery) and we can't restore keys on CPS3 carts (yet).

Why would it kill the key?

It's analogous (as far as I'm aware) to removing an EPROM from an on battery CPS2 B board and reading it back. The key would be stored elsewhere on a custom.

 

[idc]

I’ll step in here.

I’m a collector myself, but as you know I’ve shared dumps, I’ve occasionally provided information to the community and, probably most crucially, I’ve performed analysis on a project which led to CPS2 security key reloading becoming a thing. From the outset of any of these projects, it’s always been my insistence that the information is released publicly.

However, CPS3 is different in this case. Yes, I’d like to see the Red Earth No-CD BIOS get dumped and released as much as anyone else here, but doing so will certainly kill the game.

If dumping could be done non-destructively, then sure, feel free to feel all pissy and bitter about the collector hoarding mentality. It’s on you.

However, if you think it’s appropriate to pressurise someone into destroying their personal possessions, then that’s not acceptable. Please don’t do it.

 

[jassin000]

The key would be stored elsewhere on a custom.

If the battery dies or the CPU detects tampering, the keys are erased.
Hot air pulling the CPU would most def count as tampering and the keys are gone.

However, if you think it’s appropriate to pressurise someone into destroying their personal possessions, then that’s not acceptable. Please don’t do it.

Actually I said...

who am I to say they aren't allowed to do so because I don't agree?

So I thought that counted as a proper disclaimer to then express my opinion that I don't agree, without it being seen as pressure (because its not).

 

[idc]

It's analogous (as far as I'm aware) to removing an EPROM from an on battery CPS2 B board and reading it back. The key would be stored elsewhere on a custom.

It’s nowhere near analogous to CPS2. CPS3 carts can and will flake out with the most minimal tampering.

 

[jassin000]

will flake out with the most minimal tampering

That all day ^

Hell I remember in the early days of CPS3 when no one really knew anything...
The joke was IF you even looked at the cart the wrong way it would die.
People were actually afraid to even ship them at one point!

Thank @Darksoft for setting us all free from that BS.
What a terrible system the suicide battery/key is, yes I understand it was used to stop piracy but it turns the future into a ticking time bomb.
A declaration of WAR to preservations far as I'm concerned.

 

[KaPH33n]

Giving back to the community is definitely important. Especially if you have benefitted from the community. However, it's not a gift (giving back) unless it's free choice. Forcing, coercing, or pressuring someone to contribute is a form of solicitation.

I would absolutely love for there to be a no-cd instant change multibios available for cps3... but I also am a collector and I have all 6 original battery carts. I am sure there are more collectors out there that have a dead warzard no-cd cart. I have about 10 dead carts, which to most people would be trash. Or something to sell because they can now be converted by the community to DS carts.

If a dead warzard cart is out there and is able to be donated to the community for science it's only there because a COLLECTOR chose to hold onto trash for us. It's not going to be darksoft opening his closet and saying it was just lying there.

I also think we're being just a bit hasty... yes the timing is working out this way but certainly we have not exhausted all other avenues. Can we even make a thread in the main cps3 forum asking for people to look for a warzard nocd? Or perhaps there is a way to force it a bit more using the other BIOSes?

 

[jassin000]

Can we even make a thread in the main cps3 forum asking for people to look for a warzard nocd?

If they battery has died how do they quickly/easily know if they have the nocd version cart?
Because you are right, more than a few of these carts exist... But they are most likely dead (no key) and won't be discovered as a result of it.

I'd even be willing to bet at least one user has taken one of these "prized" nocd carts and blindly converted it to a DS cart because it was labeled or purchased as dead.
Tossing the chip (with its precious data) directly into the trashcan in the process.