Need help with my Naomi 2 CF setup.

[robbiederhase]

Safe to assume the 2020 BIOS is mathieulh's one.

That BIOS is coming from Spain, might be worthwhile to see if anyone in SOCAL can burn you a bios (or even in the US - it'd be much quicker than coming from Spain ) - I'd create a WTB thread here if I were you before going through the ebay route. If you don't get any hits in a couple of days, then by all means go for the Spain route

I was just about to actually and then rechecked the listing, looks like they have an operation based in florida as well but it's currently offline ugh.
I'll throw it out and there and see if anyone can do so for me, thank you!

found another listing from france that's a bit fancier and faster at a slightly cheaper price too which is nice..
it also clarifies it's the update that fixes atomis converts which is the mathieulh ver? from what i can see at least...

tysm!

EDIT-

A miracle just happened. I decided to crank the 5v up just a bit since it was hanging under 4.9v upon a third test.
and then the cf read light on the dimm started to flicker when turning on! it's currently checking the memory and seemingly loading fine... but will keep updated...

 

[mR_CaESaR]

I've pm'd you with some details on someone that is in Socal and might be able to assist provided he's got some 27c160's.

I had assumed you checked the voltage again once the load was put on - that was a bad assumption on my part. Hopefully you get all loaded up now and it's not actually the BIOS that's the issue.

 

[robbiederhase]

I've pm'd you with some details on someone that is in Socal and might be able to assist provided he's got some 27c160's.

I had assumed you checked the voltage again once the load was put on - that was a bad assumption on my part. Hopefully you get all loaded up now and it's not actually the BIOS that's the issue.

Thank you, pal. I'll most likely get around to getting a multi-bios anyway at some point so I appreciate it.
No that's on me, I totally meant to and the lapse in day had me forget to do so...

So All is working well on the Naomi 2 front! MVC2 has loaded in just fine and runs great.I'm guessing it's normal it really wanted 4.93v or so? so it's rounded up? because knocking it to 5v exactly just won't boot at all. So i've kept it around there...

However.... I now have an issue with buttons...
P1 and P2 button 6 isn't being picked up despite 4 and 5 working fine for both players from the CPS2 kick harness adapter Lemony has made for me.
But on top of that all... Now P2's start and button 3 no longer work. What could the situation be here? I was thinking they may not be getting power but if the ground is reaching all the way from P1 button 5 and can power P2's Button 5 but not P1's button 6 there's an issue with the IO board...
The suddenly not working start and button 3 escape me entirely though. As they were just working for the pandora box that was installed and are part of the blast's main loom.

made another video with some visuals to maybe help explain a bit better.
a bit rambly though, apologies in advance.

View: https://youtu.be/1wVmlZE3Wxo

 

[mR_CaESaR]

Ok - we're getting somewhere!

We will get there

The voltage won't have anything to do with the continuity for the switches.

The first things I would check for the buttons that don't work

- Use a different button that you know works and swap out the quick disconnects just to ensure that it's not the micro switch that's faulty
- Confirm you've got continuity on the pins that aren't working

Here's a reference that will be your bible for until you figure this out

https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/Sega_Blast_City_Wiring_Guide

For button 6 on P1 and P2, make sure you JP1 is configured for the A position

Hopefully it's all just microswitches that have failed and the jumper

Check those out and we go from there

 

[robbiederhase]

Ok - we're getting somewhere!

We will get there

The voltage won't have anything to do with the continuity for the switches.

The first things I would check for the buttons that don't work

- Use a different button that you know works and swap out the quick disconnects just to ensure that it's not the micro switch that's faulty
- Confirm you've got continuity on the pins that aren't working

Here's a reference that will be your bible for until you figure this out

https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/Sega_Blast_City_Wiring_Guide

For button 6 on P1 and P2, make sure you JP1 is configured for the A position

Hopefully it's all just microswitches that have failed and the jumper

Check those out and we go from there

Copy! got JP1 switched to A position and buttons 6 on both sides is operational.

On the previously working but now not functioning buttons front I've also noticed in the input menu that the P2 joystick only registers pressing right..
so only registering inputs like this..
0 0 0 -- x x x
0 0 1 or x - 6
0 0 0 -- x x x
joystick / numpad
as for the other buttons I've made sure to check using different micro switches and can confirm the buttons themselves still work.
still no input being received from the wires when plugged into anything else...
also made sure to check for loose connections but no dice there either.

 

[mR_CaESaR]

What changed when you swapped from a pandora to the naomi? Can you revert back to how you had the pandora and confirm directional and buttons are working?

Swap your harnesses around ie. unplug the yellow connector and plug it into the white socket and white connector into the yellow socket.

Does it exhibit the same behaviour? If so, then your P2 harness is the issue.

If not, then you're going to have to start tracing wires and testing for continuity.

For example, P2 start.

You want to check the ground wire to pin 12 of the 12 way TE amp up
You want to check the active wire to pin 1 of the 12 way TE amp up

Repeat those steps for all inputs that's not working and make sure you have continuity at least to the plug.

Just noticed this in your video (hard to tell though) - if what I think is true, that would explain why P2 Start doesn't work.

 

[robbiederhase]

What changed when you swapped from a pandora to the naomi? Can you revert back to how you had the pandora and confirm directional and buttons are working?

Swap your harnesses around ie. unplug the yellow connector and plug it into the white socket and white connector into the yellow socket.

Does it exhibit the same behaviour? If so, then your P2 harness is the issue.

If not, then you're going to have to start tracing wires and testing for continuity.

For example, P2 start.

You want to check the ground wire to pin 12 of the 12 way TE amp up
You want to check the active wire to pin 1 of the 12 way TE amp up

Repeat those steps for all inputs that's not working and make sure you have continuity at least to the plug.

Just noticed this in your video (hard to tell though) - if what I think is true, that would explain why P2 Start doesn't work.

Nothing changed is the thing...
I didn't unplug anything but the CPS1 kick harness that the pandora elf adapter board had plugged into buttons 4-6 on both sides.
Just so I could move in the new CPS2 kick harness in its place.

The buttons for P2 start and button 1 there shouldn't have changed at all either as they worked fine with the last board... I'll try to switch it back around tomorrow and see if they still work with the pandora box...

oherwise a general run down with close ups in this video

View: https://youtu.be/SWItF9YAOHA

 

[mR_CaESaR]

Those te amp up connectors on the cp go to cn5 as per the wiki

https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/Sega_Blast_City_Wiring_Guide

Physically looking at the connection won't ensure continuity, you'll need to test the wires that don't work for continuity. If you're unsure of how to check continuity, there's plenty of youtube vids about it.

You'll need to test from the button connection to the te amp up (back plate of the cp).

The fact that it exhibited exactly the same behaviour when you switched it around leads me to believe there's an issue with the player 2 harness.

I'm sure @Lemony Vengeance can hook up a P2 harness for you if you don't really want to go down the route of trying to identify where the break is.

We're almost there! You've gone from not booting, to booting, to p1... P2 will be fixed sooner or later

 

[Lemony Vengeance]

getting so close!

 

[robbiederhase]

Those te amp up connectors on the cp go to cn5 as per the wiki

https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/Sega_Blast_City_Wiring_Guide

Physically looking at the connection won't ensure continuity, you'll need to test the wires that don't work for continuity. If you're unsure of how to check continuity, there's plenty of youtube vids about it.

You'll need to test from the button connection to the te amp up (back plate of the cp).

The fact that it exhibited exactly the same behaviour when you switched it around leads me to believe there's an issue with the player 2 harness.

I'm sure @Lemony Vengeance can hook up a P2 harness for you if you don't really want to go down the route of trying to identify where the break is.

We're almost there! You've gone from not booting, to booting, to p1... P2 will be fixed sooner or later

getting so close!

Tried to get in the shop early this morning and spent it checking continuity on the P2 harness.
(my P2 harness is plugged into CN10?? which is where I was receiving positive continuity from the connector in the CP to the end of the harness that plugged into CN10 (CN5 has a harness that looks like it goes out to the Jamma edge but from what I read on the wiki that was also normal... A bit confused))
Regardless. The continuity checks were positive on all pins with an issue... from pin 1 to pin 8 on the P2 side...
So the harness itself is fine. It just does not want to receive those signals for some reason now..
I have no clue what's going on... So so very close here.. hhhhhhh

 

[mR_CaESaR]

Sorry.. You're correct. Cn10 is to the connectors cn5 is to the jst RA connector to the jamma edge.

So you're getting positive continuity from Cn10 to the connector? What about from the connector to the buttons and joystick?

 

[robbiederhase]

Sorry.. You're correct. Cn10 is to the connectors cn5 is to the jst RA connector to the jamma edge.

So you're getting positive continuity from Cn10 to the connector? What about from the connector to the buttons and joystick?

No prob!

So to be very clear I checked continuity by removing the harness from CN10 placing one end of my multimeter at the side of that harness which connects into CN10 set to 200 ohms where i could read it hitting zero or a number close to zero for a positive match. then the other end of my multimeter to the end of the harness that goes up into the CP.
So there's no breaks there. Should I have been checking while it's plugged into CN10 somehow? There's not really any room to do so..
I have not checked with the buttons and joystick to the end of their connector though. I'll do that and see.
i should be checking from one end of a button to where it would plug into the CP connector correct? Or all the way to the end of CN10?
I initially tried to do that but my multimeter's prongs aren't long enough...

 

[robbiederhase]

Okay all so i can now confirm that the P2 start, joystick, and button 3 still works with the pandora box that was in before.
and a different pandora box i had lying around.
So it feels like the naomi has some bearing over this... Anybody have an idea what might be going on?
Why would they stop working just on the account of the N2?

- Edit -

I know someone told me that the button issue isn't voltage related but is there any chance that could be it?
because I still have issues getting the net dimm to boot sometimes... i often have to turn the cabinet off and then on again many times to finally get it to recognize the net dimm and then load the game into memory. would adjusting the voltage higher maybe help both this and then solve the button issue by any chance? I'm just wondering if the issue is linked.
is there a risk in tweaking the 5v pot past 5v? not majorly but i just can't think of why it successfully boots sometimes and not others. meanwhile when it does some buttons no longer work...

 

[mR_CaESaR]

Okay all so i can now confirm that the P2 start, joystick, and button 3 still works with the pandora box that was in before.
and a different pandora box i had lying around

So with this solution, you've got the Sega I/O out of the equation and just directly have the JAMMA edge into the pandora?

So it feels like the naomi has some bearing over this... Anybody have an idea what might be going on?
Why would they stop working just on the account of the N2?

The only thing I can think of is the Sega I/O might not be making proper contact with the P2 start/up/down/left pins? I'm really at a loss

I know someone told me that the button issue isn't voltage related but is there any chance that could be it?

I personally can't see it as a voltage issue as buttons and directions don't carry dc voltage, it's a signal line and if you've got continuity, then there's no break in the signal which is why things are working.

Maybe you can try the other IO (the clone capcom io) - just plug it into the jamma edge, plug the usb cable into it and test to see if your inputs all work (don't worry about the kick harness yet).

Don't plug in any of the JVS connector into the io, just jamma edge and USB.

If your inputs work, you should be able to use your cps2 kick harness that's plugged into Lemony's adapter straight into the capcom io clone for the kicks.

See how you go with that.

 

[robbiederhase]

So with this solution, you've got the Sega I/O out of the equation and just directly have the JAMMA edge into the pandora?

Precisely. Only had it hooked up to the Jamma edge. No CPS1 kick harness attached or even the elf adapter.
No VGA either. Since I was only preoccupied with inputs from the main harness.
both P1 and P2's start, joysticks, and buttons 1-3 worked perfectly.

The only thing I can think of is the Sega I/O might not be making proper contact with the P2 start/up/down/left pins? I'm really at a loss

The Blast's IO or the Sega Rev B. IO board?
Should I try running the Naomi with the Sega IO out of the picture and see if that's getting in the way somehow?
I thought the Sega IO only took care of buttons 4-6 on both sides with the ability to also have volume up and down.
I wouldn't have thought the Sega IO had any influence over the start buttons, joystick, or anything from 1-3...

Maybe you can try the other IO (the clone capcom io) - just plug it into the jamma edge, plug the usb cable into it and test to see if your inputs all work (don't worry about the kick harness yet).

Don't plug in any of the JVS connector into the io, just jamma edge and USB.

If your inputs work, you should be able to use your cps2 kick harness that's plugged into Lemony's adapter straight into the capcom io clone for the kicks.

Okay I'll fiddle with this and see how it goes... ty!

 

[mR_CaESaR]

The Blast's IO or the Sega Rev B. IO board?

The Rev B I/O board.

I thought the Sega IO only took care of buttons 4-6

No that IO translates all the inputs from the JAMMA edge into digital for JVS.

 

[robbiederhase]

The Rev B I/O board.



No that IO translates all the inputs from the JAMMA edge into digital for JVS.

Okay gotcha I did not know that... So now I very much see this is probably an issue with the Sega IO.

However are you aware of any issues where the N2 will decide to boot sometimes but not others?
Because I can't seem to find anything coherent online... just offshoots of different problems...

So I've powered up the Naomi and went into the input test under JVS TEST.
and something I did not notice before but see is different with the capcom clone io in...
the portion that reads ANALOG no longer has flickering variables of numbers... where the sega io did.
i'm guessing those readings are for steering wheels and stuff like the virtual on joysticks.
but regardless... they're no longer moving around... which im guessing is a good sign. i just hadn't thought much about it before on the sega io.

but now with the capcom clone in i can confirm that with this plugged into the jamma edge and hooked up via the usb, it does read all buttons correctly and all are working on both p1 and p2.
so it looks to be an issue with the Sega io!
should i post a pic of my sega io to see if there's any visual issues you can spot? all looks fine to me...
and should i try to hook up the CPS2 adapter to the capclone io?

 

[mR_CaESaR]

However are you aware of any issues where the N2 will decide to boot sometimes but not others?

I've only seen this currently with my CF setup and it's usually due to a bad or incompatible card? Sometimes rebooting helps

Have you got a raspberry pi to try out netbooting and see if it displays the same behaviour? This is probably another days project - let's get you up and running with the CF boot first

the portion that reads ANALOG no longer has flickering variables of numbers... where the sega io did.

Yeah mine has been known to do that. Since it's being used for digital inputs, I never bothered

but now with the capcom clone in i can confirm that with this plugged into the jamma edge and hooked up via the usb, it does read all buttons correctly and all are working on both p1 and p2.

YES!!!! Finally!!

so it looks to be an issue with the Sega io!
should i post a pic of my sega io to see if there's any visual issues you can spot? all looks fine to me...

It'd be very hard to tell via pictures, I'm not an expert at pcb repair, but I would imagine there might be a component that's failed - that'd be well and truly beyond me

should i try to hook up the CPS2 adapter to the capclone io?

Yeah I say go for it - with any luck, the next post should state everything is working!!

 

[robbiederhase]

Yeah I say go for it - with any luck, the next post should state everything is working!!

Okay! So. P2 start, Button 3, and the joystick stopped working after plugging in the adapter...
But. This tells me there's a problem with Lemony's adapter itself... Which is unfortunate... but we have the issue cornered now it seems.

I've only seen this currently with my CF setup and it's usually due to a bad or incompatible card? Sometimes rebooting helps

Have you got a raspberry pi to try out netbooting and see if it displays the same behaviour? This is probably another days project - let's get you up and running with the CF boot first

I do not have one around... I'm so bad when it comes to software and it sounded like a nightmare to prepare
Was also just more of a fan of the idea of having the little cards to plug in myself lol.

But okay glad to know it's not just me at least. It sometimes boots to a black screen, error 01, or error 02. or does the bit where the Naomi splash happens for a moment, goes black, then returning with the "Naomi Network" banner and loads the CF into memory. except it only does the momentary naomi splash screen, goes black, and then nothing happens until i power it down.

 

[robbiederhase]

now that i'm looking very closely at the adapter... some of the pins on the jamma edge are not soldered in place/touching the pcb...

- Edit -
Tried to get a picture of the unsoldered pins.
Apologies for the photo quality... would these be the pins responsible for those inputs?